Assisted Dying, Yes or No?

[farfromtheland]

Indeed. There's also no effort from one side of the discussion to address the balance of harms.

I am struck somewhat by the almost religious fervour from the palliative care sector and the "nothing to see here" when it comes to acknowledging that they cannot make everyone die peacefully in their sleep.

The "I am in favour in principle" people don't acknowledge that opposition in all but name is itself causing harm.

No piece of legislation will be perfect, and some people will get harmed. This is why governing is hard.

So, where is the least harm? I'm personally not convinced that the bill itself will move the dial very much at all, because the process will be fairly convoluted and a lot of eligible people will pass away anyway while it goes on.

Which side?
I have been with someone dear whose life support was stopped in the light of their intolerable suffering and previously expressed wishes. This was not managed by the state but by caring doctors and nurses, with the safeguards of love and principle.

Is it naive to question this bill - proposed and championed by career politicians (and media personalities) - when a cost-saving agenda is so obviously foremost for many?

If you are of active mind and have working hands and mouth (and friends) you can prepare enough morphine for yourself in advance. Most people don't need a bill to do this. The people who will suffer most, I think, are those disabled people who still don't have access to decent palliative care, or even a decent subsistence living standard, and those, perhaps non-verbal, whose will is managed by others.

 

[C R]

Is it naive to question this bill - proposed and championed by career politicians (and media personalities) - when a cost-saving agenda is so obviously foremost for many?

This argument is manifestly disingenuous given that Wes Streeting has said that there will be no money to implement the bill.

 

[farfromtheland]

This argument is manifestly disingenuous given that Wes Streeting has said that there will be no money to implement the bill.

Even though it works out cheaper than palliative care, or decent independent housing for disabled people?

Wes Streeting has risen above the parapet far enough to say a few decent things, but I'm not quite satisfied that he is a principled man.

 

[C R]

Even though it works out cheaper than palliative care, or decent independent housing for disabled people?

Wes Streeting has risen above the parapet far enough to say a few decent things, but I'm not quite satisfied that he is a principled man.

Don't change the subject. The person in charge of the health service, who is hell bent on implementing cost savings is on record saying that the implementation of the bill would be too costly. The argument that the bill will be abused to save money doesn't bear scrutiny.

 

[Pblakeney]

If you are of active mind and have working hands and mouth (and friends) you can prepare enough morphine for yourself in advance.

Please share your source of morphine?
Asking for a friend. 😉

 

[Psamathe]

Don't change the subject. The person in charge of the health service, who is hell bent on implementing cost savings is on record saying that the implementation of the bill would be too costly. The argument that the bill will be abused to save money doesn't bear scrutiny.

Wes Streeting job is to carry out the wishes of Parliament. Parliament might delegate some decisions to him but not all. Parliament decides and Ministers have responsibility to implement.

Ian

 

[C R]

Wes Streeting job is to carry out the wishes of Parliament. Parliament might delegate some decisions to him but not all. Parliament decides and Ministers have responsibility to implement.

Ian

He is on record pretty much saying that he won't fund it, which will mean years of judicial reviews to get the government to follow the law if it ever passes.

 

[farfromtheland]

Don't change the subject. The person in charge of the health service, who is hell bent on implementing cost savings is on record saying that the implementation of the bill would be too costly. The argument that the bill will be abused to save money doesn't bear scrutiny.

I'm not changing the subject. I'm not in the habit of laying down opinions as concrete - and as Ian implies, Wes S's stance is not a permanent fixture either.

 

[farfromtheland]

Too many disabled people have already died due to 'welfare' cuts. Anyone else beginning to see a pattern there?

 

[Psamathe]

He is on record pretty much saying that he won't fund it, which will mean years of judicial reviews to get the government to follow the law if it ever passes.

The problem is he is very anti and using his poition to try and stop the bill. He witters on about No budget for assisted dying service, Streeting says, of course there isn't, just as there is no budget for vaccinating beavers against cholera, 'cos there is no requirement for any budget until it becomes law. We don't create budgets for things we are not undertaking.

Parliament's impact assesment found it not possible to calculate cost/savings as too many variables. They did estimates and might be a net saving, might be a net cost. Wes Streeting only looking at the cost side because of his ideological objection to the proposal.

Ian

 

[farfromtheland]

And what's to stop more private contractors moving into that growth health industry niche?

 

[farfromtheland]

Please share your source of morphine?
Asking for a friend. 😉

Sorry!

 

[C R]

I'm not changing the subject. I'm not in the habit of laying down opinions as concrete - and as Ian implies, Wes S's stance is not a permanent fixture either.

You said that the bill was being pushed through as a cost saving measure. There's no evidence for that, in fact, the opposite seems to be true, i.e., some opponents of the bill like Streeting, claim that it will be too costly. Both arguments can't be right.

 

[farfromtheland]

I said it was being embraced in a cost-saving mindset - not quite the same thing. I suspect the compassionate arguments are being played up to achieve political ends. When in politics is this not the practice?

I think Wes Streeting is doing what many politicians do - utilising an argument that appeals to the zeitgeist, whether right or wrong. My arguments are essentially based on lived experience.

 

[farfromtheland]

And I'm not against assisted dying as such. I'm against government-assisted dying.