Assisted Dying, Yes or No?

[Psamathe]

And I'm not against assisted dying as such. I'm against government-assisted dying.

a. Government have to make assisted dying legal as it's illegal at present.

b. Without government the option would only be available to those who can afford it ie commercial for-profit.

Ian

 

[farfromtheland]

a. Government have to make assisted dying legal as it's illegal at present.

b. Without government the option would only be available to those who can afford it ie commercial for-profit.

Ian

< I posted on this previously on the previous page.

 

[C R]

And I'm not against assisted dying as such. I'm against government-assisted dying.

Strawman.

 

[farfromtheland]

Strawman.

That's below the belt.

 

[C R]

That's below the belt.

The cost saving argument is made up by those opposing the bill, no one backing the bill has talked about it being good for reducing NHS or other costs.

 

[farfromtheland]

The cost saving argument is made up by those opposing the bill, no one backing the bill has talked about it being good for reducing NHS or other costs.

Thanks for the answer.

But they wouldn't say that would they?
We do.




Disability News Service
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com › this-bill-opens-the-door-to-scandal-abuse-and-injustice-disabled-activists-say-after-assisted-dying-bill-vote

This bill opens the door to scandal, abuse and injustice, disabled ...​

3 days ago: Before the vote, supporters of Disabled People Against Cuts (DPAC) and Not Dead Yet UK (NDY UK) held up traffic in front of the House of Commons with a last-minute direct action (pictured), accompanied by chants of "we are not… dead yet".

 

[Psamathe]

< I posted on this previously on the previous page.

Sorry I don't follow every detail of what every individual has said over many pages of posts.

And I have better things to do than search back through your posts.

Of course you could have been helpful and replied eg "As I commented before I consider ..." but ... you didn't.

Ian

 

[First Aspect]

And what's to stop more private contractors moving into that growth health industry niche?

Private health care is already a thing.

 

[Psamathe]

Re: Costs of Assisted Dying
Ignoring any cost savings (hospital care, primary and community care, hospice, medicines and other care costs that someone choosing an assisted death would not need) costs for the service estimated by Parliament Impact Assesment at £10m per year.

Starmer has just announced we're going to be buying 12 F-35A and close on £1bn (add in ongoing costs on top of that). Government is providing £30m supporting the reopening of Doncaster Sheffield Airport, Starmer's climbdown over disability benefit cuts is going to mean finding £3bn, NHS budgets are being increased by £29 billion per year. In the scale of Government expenditure the costs Streeting and others are raising are trivial.

Ian

 

[First Aspect]

Thanks for the answer.

But they wouldn't say that would they?
We do.



View attachment 8855
Disability News Service
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com › this-bill-opens-the-door-to-scandal-abuse-and-injustice-disabled-activists-say-after-assisted-dying-bill-vote

This bill opens the door to scandal, abuse and injustice, disabled ...​

3 days ago: Before the vote, supporters of Disabled People Against Cuts (DPAC) and Not Dead Yet UK (NDY UK) held up traffic in front of the House of Commons with a last-minute direct action (pictured), accompanied by chants of "we are not… dead yet".

I did read this. It is a barrage of unrelated points, with the argument about eating disorders still being raised. Which is a non issue. Somehow n activist has linked assisted dying not only to welfare cuts (the argument being that disabled welfare is being cut to fund it) but to education cuts. It has also been tied in some way that I can't fathom, to one or more of race, gender and socio-economic status.

Thanks for posting it though.

 

[Salty seadog]

Should it be allowed, and at what point should you be able to use it, with no-one who facing prosecution for helping you.

I'm partway there as it, with a DNR on record. This came about as result of two separate but similar events, the first of which took place in hospital with me completely unaware of it till later.
If it happens again, the chances of survival with a reasonable life afterwards are slim. If I'm lucky, full time care will be all that's required. The brain will be further damaged, possibly resulting in being in nothing but a persistent vegetative state. Painkillers are already a no, with their last use thirteen years ago resulting in admission from the A&E. A nurse and a doctor left facing discipline procedures because they didn't have full access to the records, and finishing their shifts submitting their version of events. A busy A&E down a senior nurse and one doctor.

I for one do not want to "live" like that. Or have anyone facing prosecution for letting me go or if a simple mistake were to be made and misinterpreted afterwards with hindsight.

Hi Sean, I do believe in the right to end a life lived in constant pain. Subject to strict safeguarding. I watched my mum slowly die and the last few months was in a hospital bed in the living room with my dad sleeping on the floor so he could be there. I held her hand as she passed. I think I recall you having testicular problems. I'm glad you are still here, I remember you saving the fate of Ausra when she sliced her foot. I've lost touch with her but this has made me want to find out how she is.



Best wishes,



Dan.

 

[Salty seadog]

Re: Costs of Assisted Dying
Ignoring any cost savings (hospital care, primary and community care, hospice, medicines and other care costs that someone choosing an assisted death would not need) costs for the service estimated by Parliament Impact Assesment at £10m per year.

Starmer has just announced we're going to be buying 12 F-35A and close on £1bn (add in ongoing costs on top of that). Government is providing £30m supporting the reopening of Doncaster Sheffield Airport, Starmer's climbdown over disability benefit cuts is going to mean finding £3bn, NHS budgets are being increased by £29 billion per year. In the scale of Government expenditure the costs Streeting and others are raising are trivial.

Ian

I used to like Starmer but recently he's been doing his best to get labour out of government for years to come. I don't know what he's thinking.

 

[briantrumpet]

I used to like Starmer but recently he's been doing his best to get labour out of government for years to come. I don't know what he's thinking.

I think he's handed a lot of his thinking over to pollsters who think that the Reform vote is the only one that's worth chasing and that they don't need to worry about left-leaning anti-Reform voters.

 

[classic33]

Hi Sean, I do believe in the right to end a life lived in constant pain. Subject to strict safeguarding. I watched my mum slowly die and the last few months was in a hospital bed in the living room with my dad sleeping on the floor so he could be there. I held her hand as she passed. I think I recall you having testicular problems. I'm glad you are still here, I remember you saving the fate of Ausra when she sliced her foot. I've lost touch with her but this has made me want to find out how she is.



Best wishes,



Dan.

I speak only for myself here, but owing to one lot of medication I'm on these last 48 years, painkillers are not a no go for me. Between that and allergic/adverse reactions there's a lot they daren't do. The testicular cancer being the last surgical procedure carried out, deemed as life threatening due to the possibility of spreading. That operation didn't pass without incident.

Last painkiller used was on the last Saturday-Sunday in January 2012. stopped the heart, almost as soon as it was used. Resulted in two people ending their shifts filling in forms, explaining their actions. It's partly why I've the DNR on record, the other being I know there's limits on what they can do, without making things worse. I want no-one being blamed for it, should the same happen again.

Snapped the ankle in November 2000, resulting in having it set straight with no pain relief. They didn't want to risk it going wrong.

 

[farfromtheland]

Sorry I don't follow every detail of what every individual has said over many pages of posts.
Ian

My comments were on the same page as the one you did reply to - essentially this...

Most people don't need a bill to do this. The people who will suffer most, I think, are those disabled people who still don't have access to decent palliative care, or even a decent subsistence living standard, and those, perhaps non-verbal, whose will is managed by others.

...which came quite shortly before your reply...

a. Government have to make assisted dying legal as it's illegal at present.

b. Without government the option would only be available to those who can afford it ie commercial for-profit

To repeat yourself or to rely on conversational flow is a hard one here, but there you go.