Budget 2025

[briantrumpet]

Broken election manifesto both in spirit and the letter

National Insurance - freezing bands is increasing National Insurance
Income Tax - increase in savings rates in an increase in the rate of income tax.

So manifesto pledges just discarded when they actually didn't need to.

All manifesto pledges are meaningless, but the parties go through the charade because the electorate won't vote for honest ones - they prefer the fairy tales.

 

[Psamathe]

All manifesto pledges are meaningless, but the parties go through the charade because the electorate won't vote for honest ones - they prefer the fairy tales.

Politically this budget has created the opening Badenoch/Conservatives have needed. Manifesto pledges broken and feeding into the broader positioning allowing the Conservatives to present themselves as the party for business and growth and to present Labour as the party for benefits and high tax & spending. Weirdly they also be right in that Ms Reeves/Starmer didn't need to raise as much tax as they decided to as OBR estimates were not as bad as everybody had expected.

As to whether Ms Badenoch is up to actually using the opportunity Starmer/Reeves has given her ... remains to be seen.

 

[BoldonLad]

My assumption also. I guess it probably stems from having been bought up by a Dad that was, as we always like to tell him, a "massive tightwad), I have always kept outgoings well under earnings for a general safety net. It always surprises me when people who are comfortable, but not wealthy (IMO), put themselves in precarious financial positions by overspending.

I blame my "frugal" tendencies on being born in 1947, when things were hard (pause here, to imagine Hovis advert music playing) 😂

I used to do some volunteering for a Credit Union, which my Sister-in-law was involved with. It often required advising people who had small income, and were struggling to cope. I was invariably amazed at the lack of any kind of "money control" by many of them. The usual attitude was "I don't have much money, therefore, I don't need any planning or control". In practice, in my experience, the complete opposite was true, ie, the less income you have, the more vital good planning and control are.

 

[BoldonLad]

I’m amazed the bands are so low. In many parts of London and Home Counties the jump from £2-£5million is fairly small. There should be a £10-£20 million bracket.

And I do think this should be regionalised. With lower thresholds in different parts of UK. As the housing market is so heavily skewed to the South east.

Steady on there! It is OK those toffs in London being milked, but, us poor Northerners have Whippets to care for 😂

Seriously, it its a very reasonable point, my son lives in Windsor, in a house very similar to ours, in terms of location and size. His house is "worth" approximately. 3 times as much as ours (although, well short of £2million). I doubt if there are ANY houses in South Tyneside which would attract a £2million price tag!

 

[Shortfall]

I must have missed that bit of the Budget...

View attachment 11280

You weren't looking hard enough then. Prepare for Allister Heath to be proved right.

 

[briantrumpet]

I blame my "frugal" tendencies on being born in 1947, when things were hard (pause here, to imagine Hovis advert music playing) 😂

I used to do some volunteering for a Credit Union, which my Sister-in-law was involved with. It often required advising people who had small income, and were struggling to cope. I was invariably amazed at the lack of any kind of "money control" by many of them. The usual attitude was "I don't have much money, therefore, I don't need any planning or control". In practice, in my experience, the complete opposite was true, ie, the less income you have, the more vital good planning and control are.

I've inherited the tightwad/frugal habits from my wartime generation parents, including the sometimes silent "How much?!" reaction when seeing prices in shops & restaurants. Like them, I'm really not good at spending money, other than on bikes and houses... 😉🤣

The person who now does my financial advice was sceptical about how little I spend, when he took me on, but I think he's realised that I really am a skilled tightwad.

 

[briantrumpet]

You weren't looking hard enough then. Prepare for Allister Heath to be proved right.

That would be an extremely rare event. I might put on an Allister Heath Was Right For Once party if he is.

 

[Beebo]

Broken election manifesto both in spirit and the letter

National Insurance - freezing bands is increasing National Insurance
Income Tax - increase in savings rates in an increase in the rate of income tax.

So manifesto pledges just discarded when they actually didn't need to.

But only the election winners get to break their manifesto promises.
What promises did the Tories make about tax?
they would be in exactly the same boat now.

 

[Psamathe]

But only the election winners get to break their manifesto promises.
What promises did the Tories make about tax?
they would be in exactly the same boat now.

The "boat" in the case of this budget is Starmer's/Reeve's desire to increase spending. The big hole from OBR that everybody expected wasn't there so much of the tax increase was for Labour's increase in spending ie political rather than economic.

 

[Psamathe]

I will find tomorrow interesting as the investment company agent has asked for a call and this is the first time that's happened after any budget. Most likely is they want permission to move investments (they need my permission and as I've not authorised them to "do as they want").

 

[Pblakeney]

I will predict today that we will know when an election is imminent as the tax thresholds will be raised.

 

[Psamathe]

I will predict today that we will know when an election is imminent as the tax thresholds will be raised.

It's a weird aspect that to me doesn't make sense. Spending is front loaded, taxation is back loaded making the tax increases around the time of the next election. Would seem daft to go into an election at the same time as your tax increases are starting to be seen by the electorate.

I can see the spending will take time to have an impact but the electorate has short memories and recent increased squeeze on finances will likely have far more influence than improvements increased spending a couple of years ago.

I suspect that's why many seem to be saying they doubt the later stages of the budget will actually happen.

 

[CXRAndy]

Politically this budget has created the opening Badenoch/Conservatives have needed. Manifesto pledges broken and feeding into the broader positioning allowing the Conservatives to present themselves as the party for business and growth and to present Labour as the party for benefits and high tax & spending. Weirdly they also be right in that Ms Reeves/Starmer didn't need to raise as much tax as they decided to as OBR estimates were not as bad as everybody had expected.

As to whether Ms Badenoch is up to actually using the opportunity Starmer/Reeves has given her ... remains to be seen.

Public don't trust tories anymore.

Next year another set of local elections. I expect they will be badly beaten up over the results. That will be the end as a political force for a generation

 

[Pblakeney]

It's a weird aspect that to me doesn't make sense. Spending is front loaded, taxation is back loaded making the tax increases around the time of the next election. Would seem daft to go into an election at the same time as your tax increases are starting to be seen by the electorate.

I can see the spending will take time to have an impact but the electorate has short memories and recent increased squeeze on finances will likely have far more influence than improvements increased spending a couple of years ago.

I suspect that's why many seem to be saying they doubt the later stages of the budget will actually happen.

Exactly. Not raising taxes when everyone expects them to go up will be an election bonus. Throw in raised thresholds for the less well off and you have a winning formula.
Of course, we have to be in a position where that is possible so no guarantees but they will get tanked if they can’t.

 

[briantrumpet]

Unless detractors come up with major things that they think should have been done very differently, I suspect that this is the case, given the history since 2010 (or 2019, if you want a more specific time frame), and the position between a rock and a hard place that (not just) the UK finds itself in.

That doesn't for one minute I'm letting Labour off the hook for its embrace of Reform-lite rhetoric and unwillingness to put the case for immigration & at least a better relationship with the EU. But it doesn't help that they have to deal with an under-informed (a lot of people still think that immigration is still rising) and hypocritical electorate.