Psamathe
Legendary Member
I see paying for things as choices more than finding additional Treasury funds. How much is Burnham announcing today for next phase of funding for some new nuclear submarines (committing us further to US dependence)?
Burnham
- Thread starter briantrumpet
- Start date
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BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
That is only about £4-5k pa more than a carer on minimum wage, and Andy thinks (rightly) that they deserve more.
Do you have a source for the %ges you quote, because, they do not match up with the (admittedly few) recent graduates I know.
As an old fart, who could have enjoyed "free" University Education (but didn't for Family reasons), I find it difficult to defend the current fees and and "loan" system. Of course, in the period in question, fewer people attended University, and, many of those who did, typically had to work in the holidays, to fund their living costs.
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midlandsgrimpeur
Prostrate Member
Completely agree with this. My argument for university is often not about future career prospects, but broadening your intellect, learning how to think critically and independently as well as just experiencing a different way of life through your own experiences and meeting people from many other backgrounds. I would say that going to University was the single most formative life experience I had, and fundamentally developed me as a person. As you say, the argument for this, no matter how strong, now has to weighed up with the huge financial cost. I always think, knowing what I know now, would I go to University? I have to admit I think the answer is probably no.
midlandsgrimpeur
Prostrate Member
This drives me crazy. My wife has a job but is looking around. She struggles with numbers so often asks me to look at the salaries and work out the P/H pay as she works part time. When you do the maths, pretty much everything is barely above minimum wage. This is for charity/public sector jobs at project co-ordinator/entry level Manager with around 5+ years of experience in most of these roles.
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
Perhaps this is the desired future, harmonisation of income, so, no more "Rich" people?
icowden
Pharaoh
Salary does tend to go up with experience. I started as a medical secretary temp on just above living wage. I increased my salary by getting some peripatetic music work. I increased my salary again as I moved into a full time job as a medical PA. I increased my salary again when I moved from that to Service Transformation. I increased my salary again when I moved into contracting as a Service Transformation Consultant. I increased my salary again when I moved into Data Warehouse Management and Data Migration. 52 year old me now has a very good salary. 22 year old me didn't. I had enough to pay rent and eat.
https://luminate.prospects.ac.uk/what-do-graduates-do
I agree with you re the current system. I don't like it at all and it needs fixing.
AuroraSaab
Pharaoh
I think it's noticeable that there just isn't as much wage differential anymore. There are few jobs that are truly unskilled but there's not much difference between what a factory job pays and what an office job pays, or a manual job and a job that requires qualifications. Unless it's a structured career path everything is a minimum wage job nowadays.
There are other forums I'm on where skilled and qualified metal fabricators are being offered jobs at £14 an hour. You might as well work in Aldi.
Psamathe
Legendary Member
Also depends on whether you look at what you are paid or what you are paid per hour. Through much of my own career, despite holding pretty senior roles, my pay per hour was below most of those I managed because I was working ludicrously long hours (never been paid overtime). In my experience in many jobs you do what is needed not attend the hours your contract requires.
icowden
Pharaoh
For public sector NHS I'd expect the starting wage to be around £33.5k rising to £37k. Due to experience you might start up towards the top end and outside of London. In central London top would be £45k. Outer London £43k, Fringe £39k.
midlandsgrimpeur
Prostrate Member
These are local govt, things like employment support, mental health skilled worker roles etc.. FTE salaries (outside London) are around £26-28k for a lot of what my wife is sending me (and I have been doing some searching on her behalf as well). You are basically looking at £13-14 an hour. My first 'proper' job with a national charity in a non Manager role circa 18 years ago was £24k as a comparison!
midlandsgrimpeur
Prostrate Member
Yep, this is the impression I am getting too.
All uphill
Slow and steady
So people on lower incomes should pay for middle class kids to broaden their minds?
I had the benefit of free University education, but wouldn't want to try justifying the cost to the average tax-payer.
icowden
Pharaoh
Spoiler: Children from working class families also went to University. The challenge is usually getting good enough grades which many local comps were not equipped to facilitate. This is probably the biggest different between private education and state education.
At my daughters school classes are usually 6 to 8 pupils for A-Level. At Esher 6th form where many girls have now gone, class sizes are around 20 students. They have 1000 students per year. My daughter's school have 20 to 30 students per year. As such they are guided and supported to get the best possible results, advised on careers, university choices etc.
Until the Govt stops treating children as cattle, you will always see a huge divide between those privately educated and state educated. Sadly ministers seem unable to comprehend that if 1000 students per year in class sizes of 30 students worked, Private Schools would be offering that. The very reason that they don't is because it doesn't work.
Beebo
Legendary Member
That’s a problem with constantly increasing the minimum wage, it just compacts all the roles above, as these don’t increase to match the minimum wage increases.
midlandsgrimpeur
Prostrate Member
This is very true. Around half my staff are on NMW. It does cause issues with the other half that their wages do not rise in line with lower paid colleagues. They understand why and appreciate that if we could afford to we would, but it has been a major issue.
I have absolutely no problem with NMW and the year to year increases, but as a govt. you also have to provide the economic conditions that allow SME's to grow in line with this and absorb the costs. For the last decade this has not happened; NMW, business rates, NI, energy prices etc. have all pushed the costs up massively. There is still an inability on behalf of govts to understand the business implications of this, we can't just pass on the cost to our customers, we aren't a supermarket or an energy supplier who can do whatever they like. They don't seem to understand that these costs have to be accounted for, and if you can't increase revenue then you cut costs and people start getting laid off.
