Burnham

[Rusty Nails]

My point was about where the Reform vote will go, if, as suggested, they lose vote share.

Probably back to where they came from. There are estimates of course, but no definitive statistics to my knowledge.

 

[Ian H]

Probably back to where they came from. There are estimates of course, but no definitive statistics to my knowledge.

I think I saw that there are some Restore bods who openly say that Reform isn't racist enough.

 

[secretsqirrel]

I think I saw that there are some Restore bods who openly say that Reform isn't racist enough.

No love lost between reform and restore, but I can see Restore gaining from Reform demise.

 

[BoldonLad]

Probably back to where they came from. There are estimates of course, but no definitive statistics to my knowledge.

Which is, I think, where we started 😊

 

[Psamathe]

Burnham says the country has to get serious about getting the welfare bill down.

Great stuff Andy. But Starmer tried that and his back benchers said no. So unless they have all changed their minds which will make them look a bit silly, you are snookered.

i think it depends on the method. eg address the reason behind why so many cannot work for health reasons. Address the NHS so those unable to work can receive treatment and then return to work rather than benefits I suspect would get plenty of Labour MP support.

 

[Pblakeney]

i think it depends on the method. eg address the reason behind why so many cannot work for health reasons. Address the NHS so those unable to work can receive treatment and then return to work rather than benefits I suspect would get plenty of Labour MP support.

They probably would but I think the issue is becoming more entrenched.
I hear stories (directly from people that I trust) that young members of staff are not showing up as they are "not in the right frame of mind".
Sums up a large percentage of my working career. Especially after night out. I still went in.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

i think it depends on the method. eg address the reason behind why so many cannot work for health reasons. Address the NHS so those unable to work can receive treatment and then return to work rather than benefits I suspect would get plenty of Labour MP support.

The welfare costs are not just around unemployment though, it is all social security spending as a whole. Some of the biggest spending increases are on pensioners due to the ageing population. Incapacity benefits across families have also risen significantly. How much could be done via the NHS and improved healthcare is difficult to know, but I am guessing most claimants involve a level of disability that prevents them from working so possibly not much.

As for general unemployment and allowances, I guess these are more structural issues around job creation and wage stagnation. If we want to get more people into work, and importantly, those in work earning enough to live, we need some fairly sizeable improvements to the economy and policies that encourage and enable businesses to grow sustainably and employ more people.

I agree that mental health has definitely become more of an issue and I do feel that this is not at the clinical level, but more a case of resilience. However, if economic conditions improved people's prosperity I think that mental health would improve dramatically due to less pressure and worry for personal circumstances, particularly financially.

 

[Psamathe]

The welfare costs are not just around unemployment though, it is all social security spending as a whole. Some of the biggest spending increases are on pensioners due to the ageing population.

Worth noting that benefits based on contributions (eg State Pensions) are not funded from general taxation and are legally ring-fenced and often run a surplus. Surplus can be/is loaned to the Government. NICs do not go into general taxation "pot".

 

[Electric_Andy]

What do we all think about the technical colleges/apprenticeships then? On paper it's what I've been hoping for for years. But as always, good ideas have to implemented well (or at least sensibly) for them to work, which has not been the case for any party really IMHO.

We need to create manufacturing infrastructure so we're creating more jobs and making more stuff in the UK. But also, for the kids who can't or don't want to study Maths at Oxford, or get a BA in Media Studies and then have all the debt but no job, we need to give them exciting opportunities. Trades and hairdressing are not suitable for everyone, but to learn how to fix washing machines might be. That could and should tie in with the supposed plans to make appliances for example, servicable again. Sometimes going back to the 1950s is not a bad idea

 

[C R]

What do we all think about the technical colleges/apprenticeships then? On paper it's what I've been hoping for for years. But as always, good ideas have to implemented well (or at least sensibly) for them to work, which has not been the case for any party really IMHO.

We need to create manufacturing infrastructure so we're creating more jobs and making more stuff in the UK. But also, for the kids who can't or don't want to study Maths at Oxford, or get a BA in Media Studies and then have all the debt but no job, we need to give them exciting opportunities. Trades and hairdressing are not suitable for everyone, but to learn how to fix washing machines might be. That could and should tie in with the supposed plans to make appliances for example, servicable again. Sometimes going back to the 1950s is not a bad idea

It would have been good if it had been announced as the start of a review of secondary education. As it is, seems to be just a soundbite. Took just over a week to return to starmerism. Oh well.

 

[Pblakeney]

What do we all think about the technical colleges/apprenticeships then? On paper it's what I've been hoping for for years. But as always, good ideas have to implemented well (or at least sensibly) for them to work, which has not been the case for any party really IMHO.

We need to create manufacturing infrastructure so we're creating more jobs and making more stuff in the UK. But also, for the kids who can't or don't want to study Maths at Oxford, or get a BA in Media Studies and then have all the debt but no job, we need to give them exciting opportunities. Trades and hairdressing are not suitable for everyone, but to learn how to fix washing machines might be. That could and should tie in with the supposed plans to make appliances for example, servicable again. Sometimes going back to the 1950s is not a bad idea

Going back to the 70s would be enough. I may have been reading it wrong but we did "the trades" in high school.
Not enough for a career, but enough to decide if it was for you. Then you go for the apprenticeship/tech college.

 

[laurentian]

Some of the most comfortably well off, happy and stress free people I know are tradesmen. Good ones can pick their work and name their price, are never short of work despite the financial situation in the country and, should we be measuring success by the accumulation of material gains, are successful people.

Too often society considers a trade a "fall back position" when, in fact, a bloody great living can be earned. Too many people in other walks of life look down on tradesmen - when on Cakestop, one regular contributor (now regular) on here called tradesmen "fairly basic people" (which has always stuck in my craw) but that same person is way more likely to need the services of a plumber, electrician or plasterer more often in their life than they are a media graduate, classics scholar or even a surgeon.

The roles of tradesmen need to be societally elevated to the levels that people consider teachers, solicitors or accountants to be in to make the professions appealing to the young. A full qualification in carpentry and joinery takes just as much time, application and effort as one in mathematics or psychology and should be considered just as important as any degree.

 

[briantrumpet]

Some of the most comfortably well off, happy and stress free people I know are tradesmen. Good ones can pick their work and name their price, are never short of work despite the financial situation in the country and, should we be measuring success by the accumulation of material gains, are successful people.

Too often society considers a trade a "fall back position" when, in fact, a bloody great living can be earned. Too many people in other walks of life look down on tradesmen - when on Cakestop, one regular contributor (now regular) on here called tradesmen "fairly basic people" (which has always stuck in my craw) but that same person is way more likely to need the services of a plumber, electrician or plasterer more often in their life than they are a media graduate, classics scholar or even a surgeon.

The roles of tradesmen need to be societally elevated to the levels that people consider teachers, solicitors or accountants to be in to make the professions appealing to the young. A full qualification in carpentry and joinery takes just as much time, application and effort as one in mathematics or psychology and should be considered just as important as any degree.

I had tremendous admiration for the two pupils I had who decided either in Y11 or early in Y12 to become electrician apprentices: both of them perfectly capable of doing the uni thing, but knew just what they wanted to do (the 'early Y12' one realised at that point he just didn't want to do purely academic subjects any more, and had made a mistake following teachers' advice at the time). I actually thought that the climate was such that they had to resist the tendency of all their cohort to think that uni was the 'natural' next step.

 

[icowden]

I actually thought that the climate was such that they had to resist the tendency of all their cohort to think that uni was the 'natural' next step.

Agreed. I think thinking has now changed around Uni being always the next step after A-Levels. My daughters school spend a lot of time helping the girls decide what the right next step is for them. It can be Uni - it can also be an apprenticeship or, increasingly a vocational degree where you join a company and earn a degree whilst you work, with a guaranteed job on the other end. This is often in IT.

I think the fact that Uni comes with debt has influenced it a lot. In my day you went because you might as well. These days the kids consider the cost vs benefit, and don't just go there to get pissed a lot.

 

[briantrumpet]

Agreed. I think thinking has now changed around Uni being always the next step after A-Levels. My daughters school spend a lot of time helping the girls decide what the right next step is for them. It can be Uni - it can also be an apprenticeship or, increasingly a vocational degree where you join a company and earn a degree whilst you work, with a guaranteed job on the other end. This is often in IT.

I think the fact that Uni comes with debt has influenced it a lot. In my day you went because you might as well. These days the kids consider the cost vs benefit, and don't just go there to get pissed a lot.

Maybe a controversial view, especially as I'm involved in education, but I think that the compulsory *academic* education thing was a mistake the way it was implemented, if I'm remembering the change correctly. The two lads I mentioned just knew that having to pick three academic subjects to fill up a timetable was not what they wanted to do after 12 years of formal aducation, and I couldn't blame them.

I still ike the idea that at the end of Y11 you have five years of learning left in the bank (obviously these days only two years of that is funded), and you take it in whatever form and when you want it. I think it's too easy to overlook that 17 straight years of classroom education doesn't make all children happy and well-rounded individuals.