Burnham

[Psamathe]

... It would be nice to see cheap academic evening classes being more of a thing again.

Several years back I used to do evening classes run by the Council (I had to pay). However, those on benefits got to do the class for free and back then it counted steps to make themselves more employable from a Job Centre (or whatever) so helped their benefits. It was a nightmare as those attending as part of their benefit regime were not interested in learning, they were just attending because "they had to" and were very disruptive.

 

[Stevo 666]

Well he's obviously not desperately grasping at straws like the Spectator.

Explain your reasoning if you can.

 

[Stevo 666]

Wake up @Stevo 666, I was criticising your appeal to 'common sense' not your belief in neo-liberal economic orthodoxy.

OK, but another question dodged. There's a pattern developing here.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said about vocational training and the undervaluing of skilled trades.

One thing that has been missed in the discussion about how different values are placed on different careers, is perhaps the 'upselling' of certain careers which has created unrealistic expectations for younger generations. Creative industries, media, sport and so on are generally the gold standard for a lot of young people, but the reality is these are limited and incredibly hard to break into, but are over promoted to the detriment of other career choices.

I worked in youth unemployment support for years, I am all for aspiration, but pragmatism as well. I think there is a bigger piece from school age around developing and managing positive but realistic expectations for work. Also, getting young people to understand that the perfect job/career is a fiction for most. You have to make trade offs and understand the overall picture of how work fits into your personal goals and financial needs.

 

[Pblakeney]

Totally agree. A very sad, and wrong, story from my school days circa 1997. We had the usual line of "must aim for Uni else you're life is over". But they introduced a (b-tech or something) course for motor mechanics. There were precisely 4 people on the course, all of whom had mild learning difficulties i.e. were not expected to get GCSE grade A-C in any of the subjects. They were seen as special needs, dummies, who could only do vehicle mechanics because they were too thick to do normal subjects (not my view I might add). We all know of course that everyone is intelligent in their own right, if the yardstick is appropriately positioned, and not just placed in a purely academic footing.

So I'd love to see more vocational subjects that actually embrace the skills needed, and provide a stable and profitable future for kids who don't want to study core subjects at Uni. We need to create not only the infrastructure and opportunity, but shape the attitudes and ethos around vocational subjects

Going back to school days, when I was at the stage of deciding what to do with my life only 10% of school students went to university.
Not saying that we have to go back to that level but the notion of everyone going to university was just stupid.

 

[briantrumpet]

This is an extremely good piece from Raphael Behr, most of it quotable, but particularly excoriating about Badenoch, and none too kind to Starmer. It's well worth a read.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...chill-andy-burnham-tories-reform-keir-starmer

What British conservatives either fail to observe or refuse to acknowledge in their mindless orbit around Planet Trump is that Maga politics contains more heresies against the sacred Thatcherite creed than anything Burnham proposes. The US president hates free trade. He admires single-party regimes where a supreme ruler directs economic activity. He imposes arbitrary tariffs. He uses his office to extort money from private companies or coerce them into giving equity stakes to his government. And he acquired the power to do all of this by skilfully manipulating economic and social grievances caused by deindustrialisation – the alienation and dislocation felt by working-class communities that felt their security and dignity washed away by cold global market tides.

It is the same trend that Burnham identifies as a cause of British discontent and economic stagnation. The difference is that the UK prime minister talks about healing wounds, while Trump keeps them salted with partisan spite. It should be obvious to anyone who cares about democracy and the rule of law which model is preferable. Maybe the new prime minister’s methods will not work. Perhaps his prescriptions are flawed. At least his diagnosis belongs in 2026. It is the leader of the opposition, craving reenactment of a battle that was won before she was born, who is stuck in the wrong century.

 

[FishFright]

Going back to school days, when I was at the stage of deciding what to do with my life only 10% of school students went to university.
Not saying that we have to go back to that level but the notion of everyone going to university was just stupid.

Why is people being better educated stupid ?

I guess from a employment point of view it could be seen that way but surely a better educated populace is a reward in itself?

 

[icowden]

Explain your reasoning if you can.

Read the articles and actually look up whether the things listed as u-turns are u-turns.
Simple.

 

[icowden]

Why is people being better educated stupid ?
I guess from a employment point of view it could be seen that way but surely a better educated populace is a reward in itself?

I think the point being made is that not everyone's best way forward is via University.
The old days were great when everyone could go, but you did end up with people on the courses who really shouldn't have been there and would have been much better served learning in a different way.

 

[AndyRM]

Read the articles and actually look up whether the things listed as u-turns are u-turns.
Simple.

I admire your optimism.

 

[briantrumpet]

I admire your optimism.

Maybe we need an AI summary tailored for someone who thought that there was nothing wrong with Liz Truss as Prime Minister.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Why is people being better educated stupid ?

I guess from a employment point of view it could be seen that way but surely a better educated populace is a reward in itself?

It's not stupid but when it costs £10k a year it's a very expensive 'reward in itself' for those individuals who go on to university in a world where you are no longer guaranteed to reap the job benefits. The previous system, where all of us subsidised a small minority, who gained the benefit for free because graduates were limited in number, wasn't perfect either though.

 

[AndyRM]

Maybe we need an AI summary tailored for someone who thought that there was nothing wrong with Liz Truss as Prime Minister.

I'd rather cut my arm off than subject myself to AI.

 

[briantrumpet]

I'd rather cut my arm off than subject myself to AI.

That's understandable.

 

[AuroraSaab]

He's said he thinks we should sort out palliative care before assisted dying is discussed again.
I agree and I'll be very interested in the details of that sorting out. It's crazy that UK hospices are 70% funded by public charity.