Bye Bye NHS

[cookiemonster]

That's what is in store if the Red Tories sorry, Labour, win the next GE.

And, according to Wes Streeting, anyone who compains about the increasing use to private companies in NHS care, which has worked so well so far, are 'Middle Class Lefties.'

https://www.thenational.scot/news/2...ce-nhs-use-private-sector-wes-streeting-says/

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-sector-to-cut-nhs-backlog-wes-streeting-says

To give you a quick example, the last time I went to a doc here in HK, a normal GP, I paid the equivalent of 80 quid for Laryngitis just a month ago. This could be what's in store for the UK.

 

[BoldonLad]

That's what is in store if the Red Tories sorry, Labour, win the next GE.

And, according to Wes Streeting, anyone who compains about the increasing use to private companies in NHS care, which has worked so well so far, are 'Middle Class Lefties.'

https://www.thenational.scot/news/2...ce-nhs-use-private-sector-wes-streeting-says/

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-sector-to-cut-nhs-backlog-wes-streeting-says

To give you a quick example, the last time I went to a doc here in HK, a normal GP, I paid the equivalent of 80 quid for Laryngitis just a month ago. This could be what's in store for the UK.

I am not advocating Private Health Care, but, on average, I visit my GP once per year. I suspect, at £80 a go, it would be cheaper for me than the cost in taxes for “free” NHS GP visits.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think we'll increasingly move to a more European model of paying for certain tests and visits, perhaps more means testing. That'll happen under both Tory or Labour governments eventually.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I am not advocating Private Health Care, but, on average, I visit my GP once per year. I suspect, at £80 a go, it would be cheaper for me than the cost in taxes for “free” NHS GP visits.

All for one and one for all
bugger that, I don't get ill, unlike all those other self indulgent/lazy/...*

*Please insert whatever rationalisation you feel happiest with. And hope you don't need anything more than a routine GP visit.

F*ck the Tories - both blue and red.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I don't think BL was suggesting he stops paying taxes because it would be cheaper to go private. I do think we unfairly compare the NHS model, which is almost entirely free at point of use, with other mixed models in Europe. My friend in Spain paid €50 for a course of antibiotics recently. We do need to have a think about what we want from the NHS. I think most people genuinely would shoulder tax increases if it was ring-fenced for the health service but no party seems to want to commit to going down that route.

 

[BoldonLad]

All for one and one for all
bugger that, I don't get ill, unlike all those other self indulgent/lazy/...*

*Please insert whatever rationalisation you feel happiest with. And hope you don't need anything more than a routine GP visit.

F*ck the Tories - both blue and red.

I did say I didn’t favour that model, but, I hope you enjoyed your rant. 😊

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I did say I didn’t favour that model, but, I hope you enjoyed your rant. 😊

Yes rant, not particularly aimed at you.

 

[multitool]

That's what is in store if the Red Tories sorry, Labour, win the next GE.

And, according to Wes Streeting, anyone who compains about the increasing use to private companies in NHS care, which has worked so well so far, are 'Middle Class Lefties.'

https://www.thenational.scot/news/2...ce-nhs-use-private-sector-wes-streeting-says/

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-sector-to-cut-nhs-backlog-wes-streeting-says

To give you a quick example, the last time I went to a doc here in HK, a normal GP, I paid the equivalent of 80 quid for Laryngitis just a month ago. This could be what's in store for the UK.

This post is pretty typical of your output.

It is conflating two completely different things: provision of services and method of funding.

Increased use of private sector for the supply of medical services does not mean that end users will be charged. It means that, in theory, waiting lists will shorten. Streeting has already said that he is open to increased use of private health care for precisely this reason, and it is fairly obvious as to why.

Funding is a different matter. If memory serves there was an investigation in the Lords six or seven years ago into different options available. These are funding from general taxation (UK), a social insurance fund (France etc) or private health insurance (USA, Switzerland etc). The outcome was that all of the systems have advantages and disadvantages and neither of the other two offered any material advantages over the system we have.

This is why Labour does not plan to change the funding system and sees the possible movement to.be in a reform of how the money is spent.

In the short term, the huge waiting lists cannot be reduced without employing more staff. But the supply of staff is not there, hence the view to using capacity within the private sector.

 

[qigong chimp]

In the short term, the huge waiting lists cannot be reduced without employing more staff. But the supply of staff is not there, hence the view to using capacity within the private sector.

Whence the supply of staff to the private sector, endowing it with 'capacity'?

 

[multitool]

Whence the supply of staff to the private sector, endowing it with 'capacity'?

Moonlighting NHS staff, in some cases, as you well know. Will they moonlight for the NHS? I doubt it.

 

[qigong chimp]

You're talking consultants then. Perhaps taking their skills to the highest bidder should be conditional on their first paying back the entirety of the public investment in their training? That might take them a wee while and help with the backlog.
I worked in the NHS in the 80's when Thatcher's de-regulation started to create 'opportunity' in the NHS. Cleaners and auxiliary services were the low hanging fruit. Recall a photo of some Scott Benton-alike OCS boy-manager punching a middle-aged cleaner picketing in defense of her livelihood. And so it began.

 

[multitool]

I think the issue with the NHS is that it has ceilings, and thus staff are not incentivised*. Hence the moonlighting. Somewhat worryingly, the growth area in private health care is intensive care, rather than just elective procedures.

What was it? 62,000 medical specialist positions the NHS cannot fill...

*yes, I know, it's real 1980s word that one.

 

[cookiemonster]

There are a few things being missed here.

Wes Streeting has received tens of thousands of pounds in donations from donors linked to, mainly US, private healthcare firms. He's opposed pay and funding demands from NHS medical staff, like the Tories, and has now seemingly encouraged more privatisation of the NHS, like the Tories.

Private healthcare firms are not bleeding heart liberals. Like all private firms in any industry, they're in the business of making profits for themselves, shareholders and offshore tax accountants. They will charge as much as they can get away with and do as little as possible for it. They'll be no checks and balances as, let's be honest here, the UK Gov, regardless of flavour, don't do checks and balances when it comes to taxpayers cash.

Why not just use the money that will go to these private firms and invest it directly into the NHS? Previous Labour Governments did that successfully.

Also, he writes this is in The Sun. The Sun is read by mainly working class people. He's banging on about 'Middle Class Lefties.' Are Labour going to carry on the politics of division that we've had for the past 14 or so years? Them vs Us? It's also quite insulting to think that working class people will blindly accept privatisation of the NHS.

Middle class people are going private as they have no choice, especially with a 7.4 million waiting list, and they are able to afford it, not that they really want to pay for private care. Also, they earn larger salaries and pay more tax so if you ask these 'Middle Class Lefties' if they would like to go private or use the NHS, that they pay for, then I'm sure the answer will be NHS every time.

Remind me again of the difference between the two main parties?

 

[cookiemonster]

I am not advocating Private Health Care, but, on average, I visit my GP once per year. I suspect, at £80 a go, it would be cheaper for me than the cost in taxes for “free” NHS GP visits.

I agree however, not everyone can easily afford £80. That's why there's a safety net, including the NHS, for people who cannot afford this. That's one of the main reasons for the NHS being set up.

Here in HK for example, £80 (around $810) is a lot of money for some people especially as HK is one of the most unequal societies on earth and the minimum wage is the equivalent of a fiver per hour which doesn't go far in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

 

[cookiemonster]

This post is pretty typical of your output.

Awwww Diddums.