Discrimination?

[briantrumpet]

For what it’s worth, since any account of personal experience will be anecdotal and not verifiable, here’s one recent experience of mine. Of all places, it happened on a language forum, where you might expect a bit more understanding.

Anyway, the contributor began by claiming Gaelic was a dead language, useless to anyone. Contrary views were expressed, including by foreigners learning it, and the guy doubled down. He claimed those in Scot Gov who supported it were otherwise unemployable freaks, that its mere presence on road signs was a safety hazard. More people tried to reason with him, asking him to tone down his rather aggressive attitude. He tried to bluff things with the old “I was only joking” defence and when that was clearly rebuffed by other posters, he resumed his aggressive style. Now he added that the cost of Gaelic being ‘forced upon our schools’ was detrimental to time and money being spent on issues he felt were more important. Of course, the nonsense about the alleged extra cost of ambulances being liveried with Gaelic came up and he continued to ridicule the language and anyone who spoke it or wanted to learn.

This group has regular language meetings in person and a number who had expressed an interest in Gaelic, and also some learning other languages, expressed their reluctance to attend any meeting if this was the level of contempt shown.

He became so confrontational that the moderator removed him permanently.

Twats will be twats. I suspect that the Gaelic element was just incidental, even if it felt like a direct insult.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

For what it’s worth, since any account of personal experience will be anecdotal and not verifiable, here’s one recent experience of mine. Of all places, it happened on a language forum, where you might expect a bit more understanding.

Anyway, the contributor began by claiming Gaelic was a dead language, useless to anyone. Contrary views were expressed, including by foreigners learning it, and the guy doubled down. He claimed those in Scot Gov who supported it were otherwise unemployable freaks, that its mere presence on road signs was a safety hazard. More people tried to reason with him, asking him to tone down his rather aggressive attitude. He tried to bluff things with the old “I was only joking” defence and when that was clearly rebuffed by other posters, he resumed his aggressive style. Now he added that the cost of Gaelic being ‘forced upon our schools’ was detrimental to time and money being spent on issues he felt were more important. Of course, the nonsense about the alleged extra cost of ambulances being liveried with Gaelic came up and he continued to ridicule the language and anyone who spoke it or wanted to learn.

This group has regular language meetings in person and a number who had expressed an interest in Gaelic, and also some learning other languages, expressed their reluctance to attend any meeting if this was the level of contempt shown.

He became so confrontational that the moderator removed him permanently.

Thankyou, I'm glad it isn't just me who's seen that sort of thing.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

Twats will be twats. I suspect that the Gaelic element was just incidental, even if it felt like a direct insult.

There is nothing really incidental there though, that's targetted.

 

[First Aspect]

I had surmised the thing about expenditure. They might have a point.

The rest, not so much. I spent 12 years in rural Midlothian and for sure there were some interestingly backward attitudes. Anti English sentiment was common, and correlated strongly with pro SNP. Followed by being anti anyone with the appearance of not being working class. Followed by cyclists. Followed by Polish tradesmen.

People (a) whine about lots of things (b) take the piss out of lots of things. And accentism is as old as the hills. So I am not sure how much of an issue it really is, compared to anything else.

 

[First Aspect]

Thankyou, I'm glad it isn't just me who's seen that sort of thing.

You both need to stop hanging out with peanuts.

 

[briantrumpet]

There is nothing really incidental there though, that's targetted.

But twats like that will always find a target. I'd guess that that one would always punch down on someone who they perceive as a minority.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

You both need to stop hanging out with peanuts.

I try, but you can't tell who these people are from appearance alone! 🤣

To be fair, it's a combination of people I've met, people on groups like this and Faecebook, I've even heard my Brother do it once many years back and well, from life generally.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Twats will be twats. I suspect that the Gaelic element was just incidental, even if it felt like a direct insult.

Not at all, his ire was specifically directed against Gaelic. Remember, this was on a language forum and he had no problem with any other language.

Edited to correct a typo.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I had surmised the thing about expenditure. They might have a point.

The rest, not so much. I spent 12 years in rural Midlothian and for sure there were some interestingly backward attitudes. Anti English sentiment was common, and correlated strongly with pro SNP. Followed by being anti anyone with the appearance of not being working class. Followed by cyclists. Followed by Polish tradesmen.

People (a) whine about lots of things (b) take the piss out of lots of things. And accentism is as old as the hills. So I am not sure how much of an issue it really is, compared to anything else.

I find anti-English sentiment unacceptable.

(Criticism of Anglo-centric policies pushed by a government in London is another thing and the two should not be confused.)

 

[briantrumpet]

Not at all, his ire was specifically directed against Gaelic. Remember, this was on a language forum and he had no problem with any other langauge.

But that doesn't undermine my point: of course on a language forum a twat is going to pick on a minority language, or a minority accent. That's just what they do.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

But that doesn't undermine my point: of course on a language forum a twat is going to pick on a minority language, or a minority accent. That's just what they do.

Having the benefit of being involved directly in the discussion over a couple of days, I can confidently report that his choice of Gaelic as a minority language to rail against was not incidental.

 

[briantrumpet]

Of course it personally stings when a twat's target is the thing you care about and are therefore sensitive about. I'm not trying to excuse twattish behaviour.

 

[briantrumpet]

Having the benefit of being involved directly in the discussion over a couple of days, I can confidently report that his choice of Gaelic as a minority language to rail against was not incidental.

I don't think you're quite getting my point: obviously the abuse was specific and hurtful to those who care about Gaelic, but that's how trolls work. I venture to suggest that there's even evidence of that in this forum, but the targets aren't Gaelic.

 

[First Aspect]

I find anti-English sentiment unacceptable.

(Criticism of Anglo-centric policies pushed by a government in London is another thing and the two should not be confused.)

Perhaps, but it's true to say that the two do correlate to a degree.

On a related point, it does strike me that the rural parts of Scotland are more pro-UK, including the Highlands and Islands. So there does seem to be a better understanding that the supposedly Anglo-centric system is vital up there.

Put another way, if Scotland goes independent and has to bridge the 10 or 15% deficit all by itself, who do you think will suffer most?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I don't think you're quite getting my point: obviously the abuse was specific and hurtful to those who care about Gaelic, but that's how trolls work. I venture to suggest that there's even evidence of that in this forum, but the targets aren't Gaelic.

You’re right, I’m not getting your point at all!

I’ve given an example of hostility against Gaelic which you appear to be saying was not the actual target.
The offending member wasn’t a newbie, didn’t have prior trolling behaviour etc., didn’t criticise any other language but jumped straight in with an unprompted dig at Gaelic during a discussion about Latin, which he then developed further until he was ejected.

I might add that others, with no interest in Gaelic itself, but native speakers of Arabic, Igbo, Spanish and so on, felt strongly enough to take up its defence.