Ditch HS2?

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mjr

Active Member
An clear example of the London and the south focus on development. Leeds and Sheffield are 29 miles apart but the train currently takes on average 67 minutes.
What use is stating the average time? That misleads by emphasising the more frequent (3 per hour) stopping service (approx 75mins) over the hourly semi-fast regionals (55 minutes) and CrossCountry intercity services (42 minutes).

For Birmingham to London, that is an average of 110 minutes for 100 miles. Never mind you can do it in 95, eh? Let the three 120ish min services each hour outweigh the two expresses.
 
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classic33

classic33

Über Member
An clear example of the London and the south focus on development. Leeds and Sheffield are 29 miles apart but the train currently takes on average 67 minutes.
The service, HS2, won't be stopping in Sheffield as that would slow it down.
 
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classic33

classic33

Über Member
What use is stating the average time? That misleads by emphasising the more frequent (3 per hour) stopping service (approx 75mins) over the hourly semi-fast regionals (55 minutes) and CrossCountry intercity services (42 minutes).
That's similar to saying that the units in use are capable of speeds up to 120mph, which is true. However the track, relaid for these newer units has a 90mph restriction. And even those sections are less than 1/2 mile in length.
 

Bazzer

Well-Known Member
Personally I'd be happy to see it binned. Several reasons, in no particular order:
IIRC it is anticipated to save around 15 minutes off my fastest journey from the North West to London but the environmental damage of the construction is concerning. I don't see how that can be justified.
Communities seem to be being divided by the line. A chap who I was dealing with through my work spoke of his village being cut in half by the line. We discovered a couple of years ago that our village will be cut off from the nearest settlement, which contains doctors, dentists, opticians, high school etc. None of which are available where I live. To use those facilities, will after the line is constructed, require a detour of around 3 miles. And if you don't have a car tough luck. The bus service which links settlements will disappear. If you walk, a long section of the detour is on a high hedged winding road without a footpath. - A road which will be busier because of HS2! Where I live cannot be unique. Amazingly, an industrial park, which relies on road transport for everything and which was due to be severed in two, was subject to some last minute changes of route
Journey times North West to East are poor with appalling operators. I would much prefer to see the money spent on those routes.
 

lazybloke

Regular
Maybe HS2 should have prioritised delivering benefits to the northern regions, and drop the London end at this point in time.
Promote the "Northern Powerhouse" or "Levelling up" agenda.

And... reinstate the cycle path, obvs.
 

mjr

Active Member
Because at certain times of the day the slow as a snail service is the only option and the almost fast cross country service which still as the crow flies only achieves 40 mph can be delayed so causing passengers to be redirected to the snail.
Delays can happen anywhere. "Recent Train Times" makes me think they're not that common on the fasts.... indeed, it looks like about half as many delays as my local service to London (and we have almost no choice of service on that).

I'm sure it could be better, but it's already better than most.
 
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classic33

classic33

Über Member
Delays can happen anywhere. "Recent Train Times" makes me think they're not that common on the fasts.... indeed, it looks like about half as many delays as my local service to London (and we have almost no choice of service on that).

I'm sure it could be better, but it's already better than most.
On the "fasts" there's a pre-booking requirement, not shown online, at present. Services are delayed/cancelled to allow these "fasts" to run. Incidentally, these "fasts" aren't as busy as they were two years ago. They're also subject to the same speed restrictions as the newer local services rolling stock due to the track.

Delays may be no worse than elsewhere, but that doesn't help/is of cold comfort for the person waiting on an hourly service if they've a connection to be made.
 

mjr

Active Member
On the "fasts" there's a pre-booking requirement, not shown online, at present. Services are delayed/cancelled to allow these "fasts" to run. Incidentally, these "fasts" aren't as busy as they were two years ago.
The health crisis will pass, and with it the booking requirement.

Delays may be no worse than elsewhere, but that doesn't help/is of cold comfort for the person waiting on an hourly service if they've a connection to be made.
Indeed, it could and should be improved.

But it does rather contradict the meme of hard-done-by Yorkshire getting a worse deal than the southeast.
 
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classic33

classic33

Über Member
The health crisis will pass, and with it the booking requirement.
You can say that for certain. Many of those that work on them, want the pre-booking to remain.
Indeed, it could and should be improved.
At present it isn't, and doesn't look as though it will be now that signalling(traffic management) is now done from outside the county.
But it does rather contradict the meme of hard-done-by Yorkshire getting a worse deal than the southeast.
I based my response on your "it looks like about half as many delays as my local service to London". However you appear to have taken that out of context. Local services were what was meant, not services to London. Given that local services are delayed/cancelled in favour of the "fasts", as mentioned but not quoted by yourself, probably because it doesn't suit your narrative.
 

Archie_tect

Active Member
The HS2 extension to Leeds requires boring a tunnel underneath Woodlesford following the southern escarpment to the Aire Valley which involves closing the existing rail line from Wakefield to Leeds while the tunnel is sunk below the existing tracks... it will cause years of disruption and may never actually operate as intended.
 

lazybloke

Regular
The HS2 extension to Leeds requires boring a tunnel underneath Woodlesford following the southern escarpment to the Aire Valley which involves closing the existing rail line from Wakefield to Leeds while the tunnel is sunk below the existing tracks... it will cause years of disruption and may never actually operate as intended.
Sounds like a tricky challenge. I wonder what approaches the engineers have considered.

One of the Crossrail tunnels was bored inches below an existing live underground line, without closure. (Think it was at Liverpool St). All good.
And going back a few years, the Jubilee Line Extension required two tunnels and a 7 storey deep underground station to be dug in the clay next to the shallow foundations of Big Ben (which was already leaning). All good.


But not so good when a Heathrow Express tunnel collapsed in 1994 during construction. This happened between the runways, close to a fuel pipeline and two Piccadilly Line tunnels, and underneath buildings. That project was delayed by years, and repair costs were multiples of the original budget for that excavation.
 

Beebo

Veteran
How many of us will live long enough to see the completion of HS2?

How does delaying it save costs?
 
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