Donald I, emperor of the world.

[First Aspect]

Only it won't, because the orange one will have moved on by the time they have pledged to do so. Or alternatively the spending will be hugely more than that because there will be a world war. One of the two.

Either way, it seems to have woken several countries from a long slumber when it comes to national and regional defence. Grudgingly, you have to say that's a good thing.

 

[Psamathe]

The US is at about 3.4%.

In fairness to US, the NATO 5% is actually 3.5% on pure defence and 1.5% on security and defence-related “critical infrastructure” which can include eg surveillance, even upgrading bridges and roads to take tanks. US spends a fair amount on surveillance, cyber defence, domestic defence related infrastructure so reports I've seen estimate US is probably already there or close.

Ian

 

[secretsqirrel]

I believe it's the same principle as the mafia...

Obviously Trump isn't a gangster but if he were...

Don’t you get whacked if the mafia don’t like you and you don’t kiss ring?*

It’s easy to say Starmer should tell Trump to stick it where the sun don’t shine, but which politician do you think would do that?

Badenoch? - No
Fatrage? - Ha…No
Ed Davy? - er….No
Would we? No

Zelensky has learned to take a gentle approach, and he is the greatest leader in a generation (IMHO).

Answers on a postcard..

*based on Godfather movies.

 

[Pblakeney]

The US is at about 3.4%.

We've only got to play along for 4 years* and infrastructure etc takes along time. Especially so in the UK.

*In theory, and presuming the next one isn't worse.

 

[Psamathe]

We've only got to play along for 4 years* and infrastructure etc takes along time. Especially so in the UK.

*In theory, and presuming the next one isn't worse.

It's complete madness that NATO meeting all about flattering Trump rather than getting on with NATO issues. And no condemnation of Russia over its illegal invasion of Ukraine highlighting the biggest threat to Europe ... and all because Trump is a Putin puppet. Is NATO a complete ineffectual joke? And Rutte's message to Trump just unbelievable (Katty Kay (The Rest Is Politics US, journalist) thought the message was a fake, a joke).

Ian

 

[Rusty Nails]

We've only got to play along for 4 years* and infrastructure etc takes along time. Especially so in the UK.

*In theory, and presuming the next one isn't worse.

Why would we want to just ‘play along’? One of the very few things, possibly the only one, Trump is right on is the need for other NATO nations to stop relying on the US for defence. The economies of European nations far exceed that of Russia but they still struggle to give Ukraine the military support they need to reverse the gains Russia has made and respond to the constant missile and drone attacks on cities including Kyiv without full support from the US.
Either we need to spend on defence or we don’t, but if we do we cannot rely any more on the US as we have done.

 

[Psamathe]

We've only got to play along for 4 years* and infrastructure etc takes along time. Especially so in the UK.

No doubt Starmer will be taking the rest of the Overseas Aid budget for the next phase of defence spending increase but is it enough for the full 3.5%? Remembering he's already taken a fair chunk for the current increase.

Many disagreed with Trump closing down USAID but Starmer has been doing the same in the UK, just slower so it's less obvious.

Ian

 

[Pinno718]

Well, it didn't start with Starmer:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-foreign-aid-budget-sunak-cameron-b2320732.html

 

[Pross]

Why would we want to just ‘play along’? One of the very few things, possibly the only one, Trump is right on is the need for other NATO nations to stop relying on the US for defence. The economies of European nations far exceed that of Russia but they still struggle to give Ukraine the military support they need to reverse the gains Russia has made and respond to the constant missile and drone attacks on cities including Kyiv without full support from the US.
Either we need to spend on defence or we don’t, but if we do we cannot rely any more on the US as we have done.

TBF it doesn’t help when the US expects countries using kit it makes to have their permission before letting Ukraine use it and then pulls the plug. The best bet would be for countries to make more of their own stuff but then Trump would give grief to them not using US hardware. By asking the others to increase spending he probably wants it spent on US kit.

 

[Pross]

No doubt Starmer will be taking the rest of the Overseas Aid budget for the next phase of defence spending increase but is it enough for the full 3.5%? Remembering he's already taken a fair chunk for the current increase.

Many disagreed with Trump closing down USAID but Starmer has been doing the same in the UK, just slower so it's less obvious.

Ian

It’s a cut that the populists like though so all good.

 

[BoldonLad]

TBF it doesn’t help when the US expects countries using kit it makes to have their permission before letting Ukraine use it and then pulls the plug. The best bet would be for countries to make more of their own stuff but then Trump would give grief to them not using US hardware. By asking the others to increase spending he probably wants it spent on US kit.

I would have thought that was a given.

 

[Pblakeney]

TBF it doesn’t help when the US expects countries using kit it makes to have their permission before letting Ukraine use it and then pulls the plug. The best bet would be for countries to make more of their own stuff but then Trump would give grief to them not using US hardware. By asking the others to increase spending he probably wants it spent on US kit.

This is the main reason. The actual percentages are just fluff.
And Starmer is falling for it with the planes for starters.

 

[Pblakeney]

Why would we want to just ‘play along’?

Will Starmer suggest a 5%* increase in income tax to pay for it? That money has to come from somewhere.
Will the electorate stand for it?

*Random top of my head figure.

 

[Psamathe]

Will Starmer suggest a 5%* increase in income tax to pay for it? That money has to come from somewhere.

Magic Money Tree otherwise known as the Overseas Aid Budget.

Ian

 

[Pblakeney]

Magic Money Tree otherwise known as the Overseas Aid Budget.

Ian

Not even touching the sides.

"The Royal United Services Institute has estimated that increasing core defence spending to 3.5% by 2035 would cost £40 billion a year more than keeping the figure at 2.5%."

"In 2023, the UK provided £15.4 billion of Official Development Assistance (ODA). (I think that's the same thing?)