Energy prices rant.

[Milzy]

Wholesale Gas prices are coming Down but our energy Bills are still Going up! This country once had an energy industry that was the envy of the World. Now we have the Highest energy prices in the World.
our Industry has been destroyed by Greedy corporations who are diverting billions from the public purse whilst making obscene profits and accumulating vast personal wealth. This is greenwashing at its finest. in The meantime China are investing in coal fired Power Stations, and taking advantage of the cheapest fossil fuel in the world. Anything this Country does to reduce emissions is futile Unless every country in the world does the same. calling Biomass low carbon and carbon Neutral is a a Joke, it’s just as polluting as coal but the system of accounting allows generating companies the luxury of not reporting their carbon because their wood pellets from the other side of the world are deemed carbon neutral. pretty much everything about green energy is a lie and net Zero is a big Con. Rant over thanks for reading.

 

[Ian H]

Bless!

 

[Shortfall]

I don't think you'll get a lot of love for your post in here Milzy. This place isn't the natural home for the sort of views you espouse above, it being overly represented by ̶P̶i̶n̶k̶o̶ ̶L̶i̶b̶s̶ centrist dads. You can have a like off me for what it's worth though. Do keep looking in, if only to add a bit of balance.

 

[Beebo]

I agree that there are shortcomings in the way net zero is calculated, big business will alway game the system.

But the push to reduce carbon emissions from the system is very much needed and should be encouraged.

 

[briantrumpet]

I don't think you'll get a lot of love for your post in here Milzy. This place isn't the natural home for the sort of views you espouse above, it being overly represented by ̶P̶i̶n̶k̶o̶ ̶L̶i̶b̶s̶ centrist dads. You can have a like off me for what it's worth though. Do keep looking in, if only to add a bit of balance.

I think Pinko Libs centrist dads might agree with the points about high energy prices, greedy corporations diverting billions from the public purse, and the biomass fraud of Drax importing non-sustainable wood pellets from Canada (see pinko Private Eye), for starters.

We might also point out the massive transition underway in China towards solar power and the plateauing of fossil fuel consumption in China as something that's looking positive in the aim not to burn the planet to cinders.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Wholesale Gas prices are coming Down but our energy Bills are still Going up! This country once had an energy industry that was the envy of the World. Now we have the Highest energy prices in the World.
our Industry has been destroyed by Greedy corporations who are diverting billions from the public purse whilst making obscene profits and accumulating vast personal wealth. This is greenwashing at its finest. in The meantime China are investing in coal fired Power Stations, and taking advantage of the cheapest fossil fuel in the world. Anything this Country does to reduce emissions is futile Unless every country in the world does the same. calling Biomass low carbon and carbon Neutral is a a Joke, it’s just as polluting as coal but the system of accounting allows generating companies the luxury of not reporting their carbon because their wood pellets from the other side of the world are deemed carbon neutral. pretty much everything about green energy is a lie and net Zero is a big Con. Rant over thanks for reading.

I think energy prices and net zero are two largely separate issues. I fully agree thst UK energy prices are a joke and the UK gets screwed but why is it "greenwashing at its finest"? It is capitalism and corporate greed at its finest. The same can be said for water companies, train fares, telecomms.

The issue is that we have had decades of govt. inaction, no regulation or fines for companies that transgress. We have energy price caps that are meaningless, water companies that pollute our waters illegally, rail companies that can't run trains on time or provide working toilets but ramp up our fares each year.

The ludicrous thing is that we also have a media that constantly bangs on about immigrants these days. To be honest I don't think people's inability to heat their house has much to do with a dingy full of Eritrean's washing up on the shores of Dover.

 

[icowden]

I think energy prices and net zero are two largely separate issues. I fully agree thst UK energy prices are a joke and the UK gets screwed but why is it "greenwashing at its finest"?

Because a good chunk of our energy comes from Drax which spouts bollocks about being "renewable" (Spoiler - burning wood is not clean renewable energy) and is hopefully going to lose it's subsidy. The next chunk is burning gas and using carbon offsets.

The issue is that we have had decades of govt. inaction, no regulation or fines for companies that transgress. We have energy price caps that are meaningless, water companies that pollute our waters illegally, rail companies that can't run trains on time or provide working toilets but ramp up our fares each year.

Yup :-( Sadly the previous administration gave the water companies carte blanche to empty turds into waterways. Rail is actually looking good because most of it is now back in public ownership. Labour could pull off a huge win by cleaning up the franchise system and hugely reducing complexity of fares. Sadly inaction man is in charge.

The ludicrous thing is that we also have a media that constantly bangs on about immigrants these days. To be honest I don't think people's inability to heat their house has much to do with a dingy full of Eritrean's washing up on the shores of Dover.

Yeah but furriners init...

 

[laurentian]

I follow Dale Vince on Bluesky. I do so in the knowledge that he sits very firmly on one side of the fence in the argument re: ne zero etc.

He has what, to me, is a very interesting take on energy prices. I'm going to paraphrase here, so forgive me if this is not 100% accurate, but basically he says that energy prices are linked to the wholesale gas price and that, as renewable energy is way cheaper as a "raw material", the energy price should be linked to renewable energies. This would have the effect of reducing the energy company profit margins in the short term and lead to greater investment in green energy in the medium term (in order to achieve comparable profit margins). Seems to make sense for the consumer and sense to the planet.

Renewable energies are now considerably cheaper than fossil fuels and transition to them is becoming an economic choice rather than a moral one.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I don't think it is true that power from renewable energy is cheaper than power from gas in the UK. It is definitely true in some sunny countries though. The term to search for if anyone is bored is Levelised Cost of Electricity.

Also, energy prices are linked to wholesale gas prices, but there is also an efficiency factor. If 80% of the grid is coming from carbon neutral sources, then only the most efficient gas generators can compete, so the price is much lower than it would be if only 20% was from carbon neutral sources.

 

[Ian H]

I don't think it is true that power from renewable energy is cheaper than power from gas in the UK. It is definitely true in some sunny countries though. The term to search for if anyone is bored is Levelised Cost of Electricity.

Also, energy prices are linked to wholesale gas prices, but there is also an efficiency factor. If 80% of the grid is coming from carbon neutral sources, then only the most efficient gas generators can compete, so the price is much lower than it would be if only 20% was from carbon neutral sources.

 

[briantrumpet]

View attachment 11232

I'm not sure of PP's credentials, but he seems to know his onions when it comes to energy prices. So it'll be interesting if your screenshot is an AI fail.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I don't think it is true that power from renewable energy is cheaper than power from gas in the UK.

That's that then.
Alternatively eg
https://www.nationalgrid.com/the-great-grid-upgrade/fact-or-fiction

The answer might lie in the use of 'new'

 

[CXRAndy]

Because a good chunk of our energy comes from Drax

Around 5% comes from Drax. This is screen shot of energy use in April last year

This today Biomass is still only 7%

Gas has jumped to top , wind still large contribution.

Solar is still small in comparison to wind, gas, nuclear.

We import from France too

 

[PurplePenguin]

View attachment 11232

The clearing price for offshore wind in last year's auction was £58.87 in 2012 prices. That's about £84.35 in 2025 prices. Both solar and onshore wind were cheaper than this. This is higher than most forecast power prices.

That price doesn't directly compare with the LCOE because it includes a profit and excludes the post subsidy period when revenues will be lower. Also, having invited you to research LCOE, I should probably have noted that it is a straight shoot out in terms of cost per MWh and does not consider the inability of renewables to generate when required.

So I think it may be true to say that a new gas power station will have a higher LCOE than renewables, but that renewables still require a subsidy to compete with existing gas power stations.

In many places in the world, prices are zero when it is sunny, so it makes no economic sense to build more solar even though solar can produce power more cheaply than any other method.

The good news about this, which I have posted before, is that if a sunny country needs more power during the day, then the answer is clear.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I don't think it is true that power from renewable energy is cheaper than power from gas in the UK. It is definitely true in some sunny countries though. The term to search for if anyone is bored is Levelised Cost of Electricity.

Also, energy prices are linked to wholesale gas prices, but there is also an efficiency factor. If 80% of the grid is coming from carbon neutral sources, then only the most efficient gas generators can compete, so the price is much lower than it would be if only 20% was from carbon neutral sources.

Genuine question though, do we get screwed in the UK on energy prices or are the prices we are paying justified? If they can be justified, why are they so much higher than many other countries?