Enhanced Britishness

[mudsticks]

@Pale Rider has shifted his ground in this thread.

His original assertion involved a scenario where the victim calculated that by not resisting non consensual intercourse she could avoid a beating. He believes that is a non violent rape.

He's not responded to my post #318 where I suggested how he might be a victim and what his reaction might be.

The case he's now quoting involves a woman who may have been insensible at the time intercourse took place - a very different scenario.

Having sex with someone who is so inebriated that they are unable to give consent in any meaningful way , is not having consensual sex with them.

It's sexual assault.

Sexual assault, and rape are forms of violence.
I don't see why any one is still arguing against this.

Sometimes this violence has extra violence heaped on top of it.

Yuk.

In fact only one person is trying to say that rape isn't violence.

Why am I even bothering to engage with this conversation.

Why am I putting myself through it ?

There is a thread called 'Who Cares' where this topic , and some hopefully sensible and thoughtful solutions for tackling this society wide problem, could be discussed, sensitively..

I'd ask that no one joins in, if they believe that sexual assault or rape isn't violence .

We've done that one to death..

I'd have hoped.

 

[Pale Rider]

It's one of the few scenarios where non violent rape might be a theoretical possibility.

And is the scenario of submission so very different?

Discussion of arousal etc in the Human female may be a little beyond Primary, perhaps more towards the latter end of Key Stage 3, but I don't think it's me who needs lessons.

Did you miss the bit where I referred to your example of male on male rape?

 

[mudsticks]

And is the scenario of submission so very different?


Did you miss the bit where I referred to your example of male on male rape?

Ffs make this stop.

'scenario of submission'

Do you have any idea what this sound like.

Doesn't make any odds whether it's a male or female being raped, the harm is the same

Or do you think maybe as women we probably don't really mind so much.??

Unbefeckin believable.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Having sex with someone who is so inebriated that they are unable to give consent in any meaningful way , is not having consensual sex with them.

It's sexual assault.

I am 110% on the same page as you there. I've never had anything but contempt for men who take advantage in that way and have on a couple of occasions in my youth declined the attention of inebriated women to avoid the possibility of a morning after scenario.

The chink Paley has opened in his armour is by shifting from the scenario of a woman making a calculated decision so as to avoid violence and one who is incapable of such a calculation.

 

[Pale Rider]

Having sex with someone who is so inebriated that they are unable to give consent in any meaningful way , is not having consensual sex with them.

It's sexual assault.

Yes, I've said that many times.

I'd ask that no one joins in, if they believe that sexual assault or rape isn't violence .

No one has said that, I have said there is not physical violence in some rapes.

Ffs make this stop.

'scenario of submission'

Do you have any idea what this sound like.

@Bromptonaut used 'scenario', why aren't you squawking at him?

 

[mudsticks]

I am 110% on the same page as you there. I've never had anything but contempt for men who take advantage in that way and have on a couple of occasions in my youth declined the attention of inebriated women to avoid the possibility of a morning after scenario.

The chink Paley has opened in his armour is by shifting from the scenario of a woman making a calculated decision so as to avoid violence and one who is incapable of such a calculation.

Well good luck with it all

I'm thoroughly sickened.

But also slightly educated, forewarned being forearmed perhaps .

 

[Bromptonaut]

Did you miss the bit where I referred to your example of male on male rape?

Whoosh.

 

[icowden]

No one has said that, I have said there is not physical violence in some rapes.

That isn't what you said.
What you said and repeated is that some rapes are non-violent. No one has agreed with this assertion.
If you had stated that there is not physical violence in some rapes, that is a little more nuanced, and I think you might get some consensus on that point.

 

[FishFright]

No informed consent = rape

Rape is violence

Everything else is just an excuse for certain men to ignore those those things and get themselves off.
Or worse defend their own actions in the past .

 

[Pale Rider]

That isn't what you said.
What you said and repeated is that some rapes are non-violent. No one has agreed with this assertion.
If you had stated that there is not physical violence in some rapes, that is a little more nuanced, and I think you might get some consensus on that point.

Isn't that the same thing?

Surely if there is not physical violence in some rapes, then some rapes must be non (physically) violent.

The internet is famously poor at nuance, but I am genuinely curious as to whether there is much difference in meaning between the two statements.

 

[AndyRM]

Isn't that the same thing?

Surely if there is not physical violence in some rapes, then some rapes must be non (physically) violent.

The internet is famously poor at nuance, but I am genuinely curious as to whether there is much difference in meaning between the two statements.

Rape is violence. In any context.

 

[Fab Foodie]

This is a very British thread....

 

[mudsticks]

Rape is violence. In any context.

Of course there is physical violence in all rapes.

It is violence done to the body.
Just because there is not always broken flesh or bones or bruising doesn't mean it is not physically violent to the body.


It is physically violent to the integrity of the body of the victim.

It's is also psychological violent to the mind of the victim.

The fear and trauma resulting can last a lifetime if untreated.

It is always violent.
Even if no weapon or force are used.

But once the accusation of 'squawking' comes out, then I think we really get a clearer picture of the true feelings of the writer .

Over on one of the women's outdoor groups I'm part of, there is a discussion right now, about extra safety precautions that need taking when we start running more often in darkness or twilight.

Thats for those of us 'brave' enough to undertake such activities.

Funnily enough none of these discussions involve expecting any help from the police.

None of these discussions involve debating whether or not rape, is ever not violent .

The idea would be roundly dismissed for the total bahoolix that it is

I still think so many men fail to grasp just how much fear and extra precaution women take about the place with them , even us relatively 'brave 'ones.

I'm not sure they understand just how 'unsupported' we feel when it really comes to tackling this problem.

Police and courts are there for when all else has failed, although they often fail us, too..

Far more could be done to tackle the causes of all this at the root.

But there seems an unwillingness in so many quarters to even fully acknowledge the problem.

Let alone tackle it.

 

[Cirrus]

This is a very British thread....

It's a very CC thread

 

[FishFright]

This is a very British thread....

I blame the EU ...