Farmers - a put upon minority or greedy gits - you decide.

[Psamathe]

I think I'd like to see them change the rules so that Clarkson can't use a Trust fund to avoid it. Ideally, so that nobody can, but I'd settle for just Clarkson not being allowed to, because he's an opportunistic nobber who publicly stated he bought a farm to dodge tax and now gets tetchy when interviewers point out that he's a leopard who ate some faces.

I don't know how Clarkson's "Trust" is organised but certainly a significant element of trust to avoid IHT has been stopped by what I know as "the marginal benefit" rules (HMRC call it ‘gift with reservation’). Unless Clarkson has some way to avoid this, if his land is owned by a trust and he gains benefit from it eg using it to make TV programs or shooting on it or living on it, he has to declare the value of that benefit for personal income tax.

Confess: My parents took advice and placed their house into a Trust so us kids could inherit without IHT but a Rt Hon G Brown changed the rules and as they were living there rent free they had to start declaring rental value on their house as personal income and be income taxed on it. After a few years they decided to wind-up the trust and take back their house (it wasn't a particularly valuable house).

That said, for a farm I can see loopholes but doubt those would apply to Clarkson eg farmer is employed by the business to farm the land so he/she is not getting ‘gift with reservation’ but it's a job that may come with accommodation. But I'm no tax expert beyond my personal experience.

Ian

 

[All uphill]

I don't know how Clarkson's "Trust" is organised but certainly a significant element of trust to avoid IHT has been stopped by what I know as "the marginal benefit" rules (HMRC call it ‘gift with reservation’). Unless Clarkson has some way to avoid this, if his land is owned by a trust and he gains benefit from it eg using it to make TV programs or shooting on it or living on it, he has to declare the value of that benefit for personal income tax.

Confess: My parents took advice and placed their house into a Trust so us kids could inherit without IHT but a Rt Hon G Brown changed the rules and as they were living there rent free they had to start declaring rental value on their house as personal income and be income taxed on it. After a few years they decided to wind-up the trust and take back their house (it wasn't a particularly valuable house).

That said, for a farm I can see loopholes but doubt those would apply to Clarkson eg farmer is employed by the business to farm the land so he/she is not getting ‘gift with reservation’ but it's a job that may come with accommodation. But I'm no tax expert beyond my personal experience.

Ian

I think his comments about trusts or any other subject have no value except to keep him in the spotlight.

 

[Electric_Andy]

I think his comments about trusts or any other subject have no value except to keep him in the spotlight.

Good luck to him. He's had a go at farming because it's something he wanted to do, he's not afriad to show his ignorance and failings on telly, and he's not afraid to shout out for the little people who probably wouldn't be heard. I've spoken to quite a few farmers who have watched his show and they all say that at the very least it has made more people realise the mental and financial cost of farming. If he's raising legitimate issues like the IHT (whether you agree with it or not), it is showing solidarity towards the farming community whether it's self-serving or not

 

[Fab Foodie]

Good luck to him. He's had a go at farming because it's something he wanted to do, he's not afriad to show his ignorance and failings on telly, and he's not afraid to shout out for the little people who probably wouldn't be heard. I've spoken to quite a few farmers who have watched his show and they all say that at the very least it has made more people realise the mental and financial cost of farming. If he's raising legitimate issues like the IHT (whether you agree with it or not), it is showing solidarity towards the farming community whether it's self-serving or not

To a certain extent I agree, but it's still farming as entertainment fronted by a monied celeb.
There are far better TV progs about real farms and farmers who are not celebs that give a far more realistic view than Clarkson and his 'village idiot....

 

[Psamathe]

There are far better TV progs about real farms and farmers who are not celebs that give a far more realistic view than Clarkson and his 'village idiot....

NFU President interviewed on TV shortly before the London protest directly asked if Clarkson participating was a help or hindrance got very tactful and replied "It's not his fight".

Personally I suspect Clarkson might raise the profile in that he will get TV airtime but that airtime has focused on Clarkson, his farm, his reasons for buying his farm - which Clarkson loves ('cos it's all about Clarkson) but his attitude, history and the way public regard him (outside petrol heads) wont help the farmers garner public support.

Ian

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

NFU President interviewed on TV shortly before the London protest directly asked if Clarkson participating was a help or hindrance got very tactful and replied "It's not his fight".

Yes but he is not really impartial is he? i mean he gets paid to protect the interest of its memebers and now is one of it's members or even non-members doing an better job at fighting for their cause them he himself does.

Personally I suspect Clarkson might raise the profile in that he will get TV airtime but that airtime has focused on Clarkson, his farm, his reasons for buying his farm - which Clarkson loves ('cos it's all about Clarkson) but his attitude, history and the way public regard him (outside petrol heads) wont help the farmers garner public support.

Ian

Realistically it's never gonna be good enough. Fact is he made farming somewhat popular again like other said yes there are better programmers but most people would fall asleep after de first 5 minutes. He made it entertaining in his style, and also realistically if it was just for they money he was better off making a other car show.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Fact is he made farming somewhat popular again like other said yes there are better programmers but most people would fall asleep after de first 5 minutes. He made it entertaining in his style, and also realistically if it was just for they money he was better off making a other car show.

Making an entertainment show by a well-known TV personality is not making farming popular any more than Emmerdale or The Archers makes farming popular or Porridge made prisons popular. There have been several shows over the years that looked at life on small, struggling farms but they were not entertaining enough to make for popular TV and didn't have a 'personality' with Clarkson's gift for money-making and self-publicity. I suspect that most farmers regard him as a dilettante rather than one of them.

He had the nous to get out of his puerile car shows before their slide downhill really got going and re-sell himself. I suspect his stooges on the car show had had enough of that genre by then as well.

 

[Ian H]

If we, the great British unwashed, demand cheap food, then the money has to come from somewhere to pay the farmers adequately. The farming subsidies are in theory an attempt at that but they're ineptly administered and badly targetted.

 

[monkers]

If we, the great British unwashed, demand cheap food, then the money has to come from somewhere to pay the farmers adequately. The farming subsidies are in theory an attempt at that but they're ineptly administered and badly targetted.

These problems all stem from a single cause - the increasing wealth and inequality gap - which is not something happening by accident.

It may take some kind of revolution, but things need to change. When we get the call to the ballot box, most votes go to the four bigger parties, none of whom are promising the kind of change that is needed. It's a good reason to be voting Green.

The public tend to agree with that. Yougov once inverted their question, rather than ask the standard, 'if there was a general election tomorrow, who would you vote for', they asked, 'which party do think the most favourable' - 48% said Green Party which gave them a comfortable lead. The Greens have been making gains. The power for change is in our hands. Replacing the Tories with the Reform Party won't bring about the change that the country so desperately needs.

There endeth the campaign broadcast for the Green Party.

 

[stephec]

 

[tarric]

I think I'd like to see them change the rules so that Clarkson can't use a Trust fund to avoid it. Ideally, so that nobody can, but I'd settle for just Clarkson not being allowed to, because he's an opportunistic nobber who publicly stated he bought a farm to dodge tax and now gets tetchy when interviewers point out that he's a leopard who ate some faces.

And therein lies the problem, to many tax loopholes for the rich to exploit and a system set up to to ensure the richer you are be that an individual or a company the lower the rate of tax you pay.

For example:

Keir Starmer who most would consider rich earned just shy of £360,000 over 2 years and paid just shy of £120,000 tax a rate of around 33%.
Rishi Sunak who most would consider rich earned just shy of £4,800,000 over 3 years and paid just over £1,000,000 a tax rate of around 21%.
Nadhim Zawahi who forgot to pay his tax on £27,000,000 of £3,700,000 a tax rate of around 14%.

IMO the tax system needs to be simplified and everyone pay the same rate. The con that successive governments have got away with is convincing the the people that pay the hire rate of tax is they are doing so to support the poorer in society when the real reason is they are supporting tax dodges and lower rates for the super rich if they actually pay anything at all.

 

[All uphill]

And therein lies the problem, to many tax loopholes for the rich to exploit and a system set up to to ensure the richer you are be that an individual or a company the lower the rate of tax you pay.

For example:

Keir Starmer who most would consider rich earned just shy of £360,000 over 2 years and paid just shy of £120,000 tax a rate of around 33%.
Rishi Sunak who most would consider rich earned just shy of £4,800,000 over 3 years and paid just over £1,000,000 a tax rate of around 21%.
Nadhim Zawahi who forgot to pay his tax on £27,000,000 of £3,700,000 a tax rate of around 14%.

IMO the tax system needs to be simplified and everyone pay the same rate. The con that successive governments have got away with is convincing the the people that pay the hire rate of tax is they are doing so to support the poorer in society when the real reason is they are supporting tax dodges and lower rates for the super rich if they actually pay anything at all.

See also Trickle-up economics.

 

[matticus]

The con that successive governments have got away with is convincing the the people that pay the hire rate of tax is they are doing so to support the poorer in society when the real reason is they are supporting tax dodges and lower rates for the super rich if they actually pay anything at all.

They're doing both.
(But I do take your point!)

 

[tarric]

They're doing both.
(But I do take your point!)

That's probably why I said "successive governments".

 

[Fab Foodie]

If we, the great British unwashed, demand cheap food, then the money has to come from somewhere to pay the farmers adequately. The farming subsidies are in theory an attempt at that but they're ineptly administered and badly targetted.

Thinks links back to your previous post about the dominance of big supermarkets. Whilst yes, they make big monies, the general profit on food is actually not that great, Tesco typically 8% or less. They make their money by volume. To get volume they need lots of stores and give (stupidly) low prices, to get low prices they buy big volumes and use their muscle to drive producers prices downwards or source from cheaper markets.
The salient point you made is that UK customers now expect a huge variety and quality at almost unsustainably low prices. Food is simply too cheap to be good for us. This needs to change.
Henry Dimbleby was again on the Toady prog regarding Obesity and some of his recommendations were (as with his food strategy) very sound indeed.
If we are to have a healthier and more equitable food supply in the UK, we need government incentive, intervention, and regulation, cheap food is a luxury nobody can afford....