Healthcare models

[briantrumpet]

As it says on the tin...

The doctor will see you soon. Or maybe not.

Nurse, the screens!

 

[Pblakeney]

I'm surprised, but not disappointed that Barbara Windsor has not made an appearance yet.

 

[briantrumpet]

I hadn't quite appreciated how much it had increased in 20 years.

But what happened in the US in 2013/14? I can't match these two graphs up.

 

[C R]

I hadn't quite appreciated how much it had increased in 20 years.

View attachment 9231
But what happened in the US in 2013/14? I can't match these two graphs up.

View attachment 9232

Was there a change on how spending is accounted for? I think "Obama Care" would have been introduced around that time.

 

[briantrumpet]

 

[briantrumpet]

Was there a change on how spending is accounted for? I think "Obama Care" would have been introduced around that time.

🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[First Aspect]

Least you could have done is put a hyperlink to this thread to save me the exhaustive search for it.

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

UK is 37th ranked country, US 48th. There is probably a genetic factor in there as the top three are all Asian, but extracting that from differences in nutrition is probably difficult. There are also probably one or two questionable data sets (e.g. French Polynesia - both a small sample size and in a part of the world with the highest obesity rates, so the official stat doesn't look credible to me).

But if you look at how we compare to much of Europe and Australia, it isn't good at all.

I also wonder about "healthy" life expectancy and whether there are any measures of that. I'd rather live to 82 riding a bike and then drop dead, than have my legs amputated and go blind from diabetes but struggle on until 85. I suspect the UK does horribly on any such measure also, given that 20% of the working age population appears to be too ill to actually do anything.

 

[BoldonLad]

View attachment 9234

Costa Rica, low expenditure and high life expectancy, what is their secret, genetics maybe, or, duff data?

From a personal viewpoint, Spain is interesting, less spend per capita but higher life expectancy. My, admittedly limited, experience of their system, although successful, was, depressingly similar to UK (ie lots of waiting around, apparent chaos etc)

Cynical, perhaps, but, from a Politician's viewpoint, whilst it is necessary to pay lip service to improving healthcare, the potential gap between action and effect is often so long that it is not attractive in terms of winning votes.

 

[BoldonLad]

....

I also wonder about "healthy" life expectancy and whether there are any measures of that. I'd rather live to 82 riding a bike and then drop dead, than have my legs amputated and go blind from diabetes but struggle on until 85. I suspect the UK does horribly on any such measure also, given that 20% of the working age population appears to be too ill to actually do anything.

+1

Edit: Since I have already reached 77, could we up the 82 a bit please? 😂

 

[First Aspect]

I think what a lot of the data points to us that you can't spend yourself out of sickness as easily as investing in not getting sick in the first place.

(I'm referring to avoidable stuff associated with diet, inactivity etc.)

 

[First Aspect]

I corrected us to is twice and Android knows best.

 

[briantrumpet]

Least you could have done is put a hyperlink to this thread to save me the exhaustive search for it.

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

UK is 37th ranked country, US 48th. There is probably a genetic factor in there as the top three are all Asian, but extracting that from differences in nutrition is probably difficult. There are also probably one or two questionable data sets (e.g. French Polynesia - both a small sample size and in a part of the world with the highest obesity rates, so the official stat doesn't look credible to me).

But if you look at how we compare to much of Europe and Australia, it isn't good at all.

I also wonder about "healthy" life expectancy and whether there are any measures of that. I'd rather live to 82 riding a bike and then drop dead, than have my legs amputated and go blind from diabetes but struggle on until 85. I suspect the UK does horribly on any such measure also, given that 20% of the working age population appears to be too ill to actually do anything.

These headline figures undoubtedly hide massive amounts of detail about quality of end-of-life, the extent of the effect poverty has on access to healthcare, infant mortality affecting overall life expectancy, etc.

There's no doubt the UK model is struggling with all the pressures being placed on it, though my guess would be that all models are (or are going to be) challenged by the demands of a population that is increasingly kept alive by clever healthcare that delivers us into a different range of health problems.

 

[briantrumpet]

I corrected us to is twice and Android knows best.

It's a pity that didn't come out as "I corrected us to us twice", to prove your point.

 

[BoldonLad]

These headline figures undoubtedly hide massive amounts of detail about quality of end-of-life, the extent of the effect poverty has on access to healthcare, infant mortality affecting overall life expectancy, etc.

There's no doubt the UK model is struggling with all the pressures being placed on it, though my guess would be that all models are (or are going to be) challenged by the demands of a population that is increasingly kept alive by clever healthcare that delivers us into a different range of health problems.

I know this is brutal, but... if Darwin is to be believed, I do sometimes wonder if advanced healthcare (from birth) is actually producing a less healthy population, rather than a healthier one.

 

[C R]

I know this is brutal, but... if Darwin is to be believed, I do sometimes wonder if advanced healthcare (from birth) is actually producing a less healthy population, rather than a healthier one.

No, that's not how evolution works. Most medical conditions are somatic, i.e. not inheritable. Of the chronic health conditions that have a hereditary component like coronary conditions, certain forms of high cholesterol resistant to diet management and others, many of them will only manifest after the patient already has progeny, so no evolutionary pressure to weed them out.