How do elections work in this country...

dutchguylivingintheuk

Well-Known Member
I know it's a fixed period like every 4 year or something, but now first is was May out Boris in without proper vote, Now they apperently think Tuss isn't that great either so some sources say she can be out too, when is the point that someone can step in an say '' you lot go back to the kindergarten, it time to get real poeple elected'' ?
In other words in what way can the Tory leaderships battles over the back of the uk's national and international face be stopped? and a new elections be forced? Not that i necessary think the alternatives are so much better but worse than this sh!tshow seems to be impossible.
 

Xipe Totec

Half man, half ant... ALL TERROR!
A vote of no confidence in the government, which would involve Tory MPs supporting an opposition no confidence motion and (at the moment) actively choosing to lose their jobs. That, or revolution, is about it.

The problem with the UK 'system' is that it isn't codified in law in such a way that it can be overridden. It broadly relies on our elected representatives all being Jolly Good Chaps, who will always act honourably and Do The Right Thing.

Which works fine until you end up with a venal pack of hard-right crooks, grifters, incompetemts and psychopaths who look a the 'rules' and go "lol no, mate".

Pitchforks, torches & improvised gallows it is, then. 👍
 

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
The monarch could do something, but won't. Although given that the PM was appointed by the late Queen, surely it would have been reasonable for the new King to put the decision back to parliament / the Tory party, just to ask if they're sure. Was there a process for him to officially reappoint her? I wasn't really paying attention.
 

matticus

Über Member
Frankie Boyle (in a rare moment of calm) earlier this year:


24 Jun 2022 — Frankie Boyle · @frankieboyle. I mean, it's a drag, and we're all busy, but there's going to need to be some kind of revolution.
 

shep

Guru
Am I correct in thinking the opposition can call for a vote of no confidence, this comes from the documentary I watched about the 'winter of discontent ' where Maggie apparently did it, if so can't Ikea Starmer do the same?
 

Craig the cyclist

Über Member
If we aren't careful though the country become paralysed. As soon as any government does something unpopular it would have to go, so no government would ever make an unpopular decision, which means nothing gets done as everything will be unpopular with a range of people.

The two largest protests recently were against the Iraq war and stopping the fox-hunting ban, so you would think, very broadly, two completely different groups of people. Then we get back to the issue of only wanting decisions carried through that you agree with!

There may well be a better way to do it, but implementing it would be all but impossible as it will be seen as a Conservative/Labour stitch-up depending on who happened to be in power at the time.
 

Milkfloat

Active Member
If we aren't careful though the country become paralysed. As soon as any government does something unpopular it would have to go, so no government would ever make an unpopular decision, which means nothing gets done as everything will be unpopular with a range of people.

The two largest protests recently were against the Iraq war and stopping the fox-hunting ban, so you would think, very broadly, two completely different groups of people. Then we get back to the issue of only wanting decisions carried through that you agree with!

There may well be a better way to do it, but implementing it would be all but impossible as it will be seen as a Conservative/Labour stitch-up depending on who happened to be in power at the time.

Usually when the government does something unpopular with the masses it has the support of its own MPs. At the moment Truss is hated by the masses and her own MPs, however as @Xipe Totec points out, you would have to be a pretty brave Tory to vote to lose your own job.
 

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Am I correct in thinking the opposition can call for a vote of no confidence, this comes from the documentary I watched about the 'winter of discontent ' where Maggie apparently did it, if so can't Ikea Starmer do the same?

It requires a 2/3 majority to succeed so is guaranteed to fail. There might be a strategic case for calling it but AIUI Truss cannot be removed in the same way as Johnson was because under 1922 rules they can't call a VONC within the party until she's been a year in office.
 

Milkfloat

Active Member
It requires a 2/3 majority to succeed so is guaranteed to fail. There might be a strategic case for calling it but AIUI Truss cannot be removed in the same way as Johnson was because under 1922 rules they can't call a VONC within the party until she's been a year in office.

Although there is talk about changing the rules so they can.
 

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
In this country a general election is not to choose the Prime Minister but to choose the governing party. The winning party can keep or change it’s preferred leader without the electorate having a say in that.

Not even that really. We choose our consituency MP, and at that point democracy kind of peters out.
 
Am I correct in thinking the opposition can call for a vote of no confidence, this comes from the documentary I watched about the 'winter of discontent ' where Maggie apparently did it, if so can't Ikea Starmer do the same?

The opposition, led by Mrs T, called a vote of no confidence in the Labour government of Jim Callaghan. Labour had won the second election in 74, held in October, but by 1977 they'd lost their small majority. They were kept in place for two years by a pact with David Steel's liberals, surviving a previous no confidence vote on that basis.

By mid 78 Liberal support was withdrawn but another deal, with Ulster Unionists, kept the government afloat.

In 79 the Liberals voted with the Tories. Various abstentions including NI nationalist members and a Labour member on his deathbed meant the Govt lost by one vote.

A vote of no confidence could be called now but, unless supported by Conservatives it would have no chance of success.

The Fixed Term Parliaments act, which required a 'super majority' in the Commons to call an election outside a five year cycle has been repealed, so the government can call and election at its pleasure. The Tories are not likely to do this as they face certain defeat.
 

Xipe Totec

Half man, half ant... ALL TERROR!
Am I correct in thinking the opposition can call for a vote of no confidence, this comes from the documentary I watched about the 'winter of discontent ' where Maggie apparently did it, if so can't Ikea Starmer do the same?

That's correct but like I said above - if it happened the Tories would be wiped out. So if Starmer calls for a vote Tory MPs will hold their noses, think of their jobs & vote it down.

That's a pity because current polling suggests if there was a general election now, the resulting Tory rout would be so comprehensive that the SNP would be the second largest party & therefore the official opposition. Which would be objectively hilarious and awesome in equal measures.
 

PK99

Member
It requires a 2/3 majority to succeed so is guaranteed to fail. There might be a strategic case for calling it but AIUI Truss cannot be removed in the same way as Johnson was because under 1922 rules they can't call a VONC within the party until she's been a year in office.

Where on earth do you get the 2/3 idea from.

Conservative party rule for Leader:
How does a no-confidence vote work?

Once a confidence vote is triggered, a secret ballot of all Conservative MPs is held, normally over a single day. If the party leader wins the vote (by securing more than 50 per cent) they remain in office and are rewarded with a year’s immunity. If they lose, they are forced to resign and are barred from standing in the leadership election that follows.


Government:

Parliamentary convention:

If a government wins a confidence motion they are able to remain in office. If a confidence motion is lost then the Government is obliged to resign or seek a dissolution of Parliament and call a General Election. Although this is a convention, prior to the 2011 Fixed-term Parliaments Act there was no law which requires that the Government resign or call a General Election. Modern practice shows dissolution rather than resignation to be the result of a defeat. The government is only obliged to resign if it loses a confidence vote, although a significant defeat on a major issue may lead to a confidence motion.
 
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