Is it PC to name and shame a PCC?

[Pale Rider]

A Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) has been branded a thief by an MP using parliamentary privilege.

Middlesbrough MP Andy McDonald told the House of Commons Cleveland PCC Andy Smith was sacked by a previous employer for theft.

The privilege device means McDonald cannot be sued for libel should the allegation be false.

Smith denies the allegation, which is based on the time he worked for Safeway supermarkets about 20 years ago.

It may be quite difficult to get to the bottom of this, given that I suspect there was never a criminal conviction, time has passed, and Safeway is no longer with us, so their records likely no longer exist.

Labour MP McDonald thinks Tory PCC Smith should resign, although irrespective of party politics, I tend to agree with McDonald's contention that a thief, even an unconvicted one, is not a suitable candidate for a job as a PCC.

Any MP should be able to speak without fear on matters of genuine public interest, although I've always thought we are placing a great deal of trust in our MPs not to misuse their privilege.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-58637507

 

[Bromptonaut]

If he'd been convicted would the spent conviction still count?

I've a feeling the answer may be yes. Saw something not long ago about a putative PCC who was snookered by a drink drive conviction in his twenties.

The employer though can dismiss on balance of probability; no need to be 'certain'.

 

[Pale Rider]

If he'd been convicted would the spent conviction still count?

That's another question, although I suspect the problem here is there was never a conviction.

If the MP is right, Smith was sacked for thieving but at the time Safeway made no complaint.

I've known that happen to a couple of bank workers.

The bank doesn't want the publicity of a court case, and the thieving employee accepts the dismissal because they do not acquire a criminal record or have their name in the Press.

Going back to your point, a theft conviction, unless it was for many millions, would be spent by now.

However, I believe spent convictions appear on enhanced disbarring checks, which are required for some jobs.

Not sure what checks are required to be a PCC, but I reckon even someone with a spent conviction shouldn't be allowed to stand.

Leaving aside the procedural and legal niceties, I also agree with the MP that someone who stole from their employer, whether convicted or not, is not suitable to serve as a PCC.

 

[the snail]

I think a conviction (spent or not) would disqualify him, without a conviction it's a question of whether his position becomes 'untenable', or how willing he is to dig his heels in. Assuming the allegation is true, of course.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I think a conviction (spent or not) would disqualify him, without a conviction it's a question of whether his position becomes 'untenable', or how willing he is to dig his heels in. Assuming the allegation is true, of course.

Pretty much that. I think much more detail would be needed about the circumstances to even begin to justify his being hounded from office.

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Smith denies the allegation, which is based on the time he worked for Safeway supermarkets about 20 years ago.

It may be quite difficult to get to the bottom of this, given that I suspect there was never a criminal conviction, time has passed, and Safeway is no longer with us, so their records likely no longer exist.

So he used to work for Safeway, and now they longer exist?

I'm struggling to believe that's a coincidence.

 

[Ian H]

Interesting question. Should a Police & Crime Commissioner have experience of both sides of the law? After all, quite a few coppers seem to think it's a good idea.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

It may be quite difficult to get to the bottom of this, given that I suspect there was never a criminal conviction, time has passed, and Safeway is no longer with us, so their records likely no longer exist

I wonder how Mr McDonald came to learn of the alleged crimes. Even with the shield of parliamentary privilege, I doubt he'd make such a claim without credible evidence. (At least I hope he wouldn't.)

 

[the snail]

I wonder how Mr McDonald came to learn of the alleged crimes. Even with the shield of parliamentary privilege, I doubt he'd make such a claim without credible evidence. (At least I hope he wouldn't.)

If he's sure of his evidence, why did he hide behind parliamentary privilege?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

If he's sure of his evidence, why did he hide behind parliamentary privilege?

Excellent question.

 

[Rusty Nails]

If he's sure of his evidence, why did he hide behind parliamentary privilege?

Possibly he doesn't have the courage of his convictions.
Or he can get out of naming his source hiding behind parliamentary privilege.

 

[swansonj]

Ummm... isn't the thinking behind convictions becoming spent that people's future lives should not be blighted by mistakes in the past? Clearly, that's a sliding scale, with some roles and some crimes one can be more relaxed than others. If true, "systematic theft" less than 20 years ago, presumably as an adult, suggests more than just a momentary youthful misdemeanour. But to say (as the BBC report):

Ms Smith replied: "I'd certainly agree with him it is totally untenable for a criminal to hold the position of police and crime commissioner...

would seem (if she meant it literally) too harsh.

One wonders, what would the attitude be to a PCC with a speeding conviction in their past?

 

[swansonj]

A Police and Crime Commissioner (PCC) has been branded a thief by an MP using parliamentary privilege.

Middlesbrough MP Andy McDonald told the House of Commons Cleveland PCC Andy Smith was sacked by a previous employer for theft.

The privilege device means McDonald cannot be sued for libel should the allegation be false.

Smith denies the allegation, which is based on the time he worked for Safeway supermarkets about 20 years ago.

It may be quite difficult to get to the bottom of this, given that I suspect there was never a criminal conviction, time has passed, and Safeway is no longer with us, so their records likely no longer exist.

Labour MP McDonald thinks Tory PCC Smith should resign, although irrespective of party politics, I tend to agree with McDonald's contention that a thief, even an unconvicted one, is not a suitable candidate for a job as a PCC.

Any MP should be able to speak without fear on matters of genuine public interest, although I've always thought we are placing a great deal of trust in our MPs not to misuse their privilege.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-58637507

Sorry, the BBC account you link to gives the name of the PCC as Steve Turner rather than Andy Smith?

 

[BoldonLad]

I wonder how Mr McDonald came to learn of the alleged crimes. Even with the shield of parliamentary privilege, I doubt he'd make such a claim without credible evidence. (At least I hope he wouldn't.)

Good point. Someone with a score to settle, perhaps?

 

[BoldonLad]

Yet more problems for Cleveland Police Force ?