Nationalise, regulate or laissez-faire?

[All uphill]

I'm firmly in the rigorous regulation camp.

I've lived through a time of large state industries and a fair bit of the f*ck you system, and seen their horrible weaknesses. I've also seen regulated activities and seen less awful outcomes.

What are your thought?

 

[Ian H]

Nationalisation can take different forms. For instance the train operators which were recently taken back into public ownership (albeit temporarily) seemed to be more successful than the franchisees. Another possibility is not-for-profit companies. But strong regulation would still be required.

 

[Deleted member 49]

What's to fear about nationalising the energy company's ? French owned EDF or Spain's Iberdrola who own Scottish Power.
It's not so much a cost of living crisis more pure greed these company's that are profiteering at our expense.
There now telling us that bills could rise to over 3,500 quid a year ! Whilst raking in huge profits at our expense.

View: https://twitter.com/UniteSharon/status/1558725114581192705?t=W7nEeQTAFw2F9riaaxmOmQ&s=19

 

[BoldonLad]

Nationalisation can take different forms. For instance the train operators which were recently taken back into public ownership (albeit temporarily) seemed to be more successful than the franchisees. Another possibility is not-for-profit companies. But strong regulation would still be required.

Profit can be manipulated too.

Depends how extensive the regulation is, and, how effective, think for example SFO.

 

[All uphill]

But strong regulation would still be required.

I totally agree.

Avoiding regulatory capture is one challenge, and regulators having the resource and independence to do it well is another.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Should be a popular choice for Labour...

View: https://twitter.com/Survation/status/1559178537248215040?t=aai5Fl3KovVeriQWHFOBNw&s=19

 

[All uphill]

What's to fear about nationalising the energy company's ? French owned EDF or Spain's Iberdrola who own Scottish Power.
It's not so much a cost of living crisis more pure greed these company's that are profiteering at our expense.
There now telling us that bills could rise to over 3,500 quid a year ! Whilst raking in huge profits at our expense.

View: https://twitter.com/UniteSharon/status/1558725114581192705?t=W7nEeQTAFw2F9riaaxmOmQ&s=19

That's the terrible weakness of a minimally regulated industry. Run for the sole benefit of shareholders.

I'm chary of state ownership, having experienced nationalised industries that seemed to exist for the sole benefit of its employees.

 

[Ian H]

Profit can be manipulated too.

Depends how extensive the regulation is, and, how effective, think for example SFO.

Not-for-profit is a legally regulated style of company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization

 

[BoldonLad]

Not-for-profit is a legally regulated style of company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonprofit_organization

As I said, it depends on the scope and effectiveness of regulation:

" any revenues that exceed expenses " who controls the 'expenses' ?

Hopefully, not too many will become tax-exempt:

' Nonprofit entities may seek approval from governments to be tax-exempt, and some may also qualify to receive tax-deductible contributions, but an entity may incorporate as a nonprofit entity without securing tax-exempt status.'

otherwise, who will fund the Politician's expenditure plans?

 

[Ian H]

As I said, it depends on the scope and effectiveness of regulation:

" any revenues that exceed expenses " who controls the 'expenses' ?

Hopefully, not too many will become tax-exempt:

' Nonprofit entities may seek approval from governments to be tax-exempt, and some may also qualify to receive tax-deductible contributions, but an entity may incorporate as a nonprofit entity without securing tax-exempt status.'

otherwise, who will fund the Politician's expenditure plans?

The relevant difference is that there are no dividends. So a non-profit water company wouldn't be able to reward shareholders whilst pumping sewage into the rivers. Add a degree of regulation for whichever sector they're in and you might have a system which works to the benefit of the country as a whole. You could even have the government as a significant shareholder.

 

[BoldonLad]

What's to fear about nationalising the energy company's ? French owned EDF or Spain's Iberdrola who own Scottish Power.
It's not so much a cost of living crisis more pure greed these company's that are profiteering at our expense.
There now telling us that bills could rise to over 3,500 quid a year ! Whilst raking in huge profits at our expense.

View: https://twitter.com/UniteSharon/status/1558725114581192705?t=W7nEeQTAFw2F9riaaxmOmQ&s=19

EDF is over 80% owned by the French Government........ £106 million profit from UK operations in 2020... I wonder who that helped French public or UK public ?

Did CEGB ever bring in such amounts (even allowing for inflation) for the UK?

 

[BoldonLad]

The relevant difference is that there are no dividends. So a non-profit water company wouldn't be able to reward shareholders whilst pumping sewage into the rivers. Add a degree of regulation for whichever sector they're in and you might have a system which works to the benefit of the country as a whole. You could even have the government as a significant shareholder.

As I said, more than once, I believe, it depends on the scope and effectiveness of regulation.

Yes, you might, but, you might not.

Is there any evidence that Political meddling is helpful in just about any endeavour?

 

[Deleted member 49]

EDF is over 80% owned by the French Government........ £106 million profit from UK operations in 2020... I wonder who that helped French public or UK public ?

The French are in the process of buying the remaining shares in EDF so it's fully nationalised.
EDF customers in Britain paying £1,971 a year for energy. People in France pay £803.
Uk energy prices meant to be rising 80% France 4%
How can we be paying that much more to the same company ?

 

[BoldonLad]

That's the terrible weakness of a minimally regulated industry. Run for the sole benefit of shareholders.

I'm chary of state ownership, having experienced nationalised industries that seemed to exist for the sole benefit of its employees.

Yes, having lived through 'peak' Nationalisation, I too have my doubts, but, while I haven't experienced total laissez-faire in my life time, I cannot imagine it would turn out well.

I worked in the Nationalised British Shipbuilders, what a fiasco that was.

Invariably, of late, lack of effective Regulation appears to have been a major part of the problem.

 

[Deleted member 28]

No-one here own shares in anything then?

Why the big downer on 'shareholders ' having said that my BT shares are doing pretty w*nk at the moment.