Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[secretsqirrel]

Yeah but she criticised other MPs for treating being an MP as a second job which has become she criticised them for doing other work so is a raging hypocrite or something as people can't understand nuance.

There was nuance?

 

[Pblakeney]

Like Trump, his main job is self serving.

Agreed. Some people don't appear to be able to see that though.

 

[Ian H]

There was nuance?

Personally I'd have said that talking to businessmen about politics is a good thing in itself - educational, like, and if she gets paid for that, then fine. Rather different to taking a non-exec directorship for loadsamoney and few hours on the expectation that you have political 'influence'.

 

[Stevo 666]

I really don't think he is.

But anyone with right of centre views is automatically assumed to be so by the leftie wokerati.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

But anyone with right of centre views is automatically assumed to be so by the leftie wokerati.

Oh come on @Stevo 666, I did add a question mark.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Personally I'd have said that talking to businessmen about politics is a good thing in itself - educational, like, and if she gets paid for that, then fine. Rather different to taking a non-exec directorship for loadsamoney and few hours on the expectation that you have political 'influence'.

Indeed.
Apologies my comment was more around this ⬇️ which I thought was quite plain but wilfully mis-interpreted.

In March 2023, while deputy Labour leader, she posted online: “Being an MP isn’t a second job. It is the job. Labour will put an end to this racket.”

I’m not sure she is complaining about second jobs tho’. To me she is just saying that being an MP should not be relegated to being a 2nd job?

 

[Pross]

Indeed.
Apologies my comment was more around this ⬇️ which I thought was quite plain but wilfully mis-interpreted.

That was the level of 'nuance' I was talking about from the Rayner 'gotcha' crew. It's not exactly at the subtle end I grant you.

 

[Stevo 666]

Oh come on @Stevo 666, I did add a question mark.

Just in case you were wrong, eh?

 

[First Aspect]

My point exactly. The 2011 SNP overall majority - the only time it's ever happened - was a statistical fluke and Swinney must know perfectly well it won't happen again. There's only one rational explanation for pushing an SNP 1&2 vote, and that isn't what he says it is.

It's because arguing that anything else gives any sort of mandate is even more absurd than arguing that the elections give anyone a mandate on any one particular policy.

What I suspect will happen is the SNP will be the largest single party, the Greens won't come to the rescue and they will need to either run a minority government (difficult if they fall a long way short) or accept a coalition in which a referendum is not on the table.

I do not see labour going into any coalition with reform, and not will Reform and the Tories collectively have enough seats.

 

[C R]

I do not see labour going into any coalition with reform, and not will Reform and the Tories collectively have enough seats.

We're talking about Scottish Labour here. Anything that sticks it to the nats.

 

[Xipe Totec]

It's because arguing that anything else gives any sort of mandate is even more absurd than arguing that the elections give anyone a mandate on any one particular policy.

What I suspect will happen is the SNP will be the largest single party, the Greens won't come to the rescue and they will need to either run a minority government (difficult if they fall a long way short) or accept a coalition in which a referendum is not on the table.

I do not see labour going into any coalition with reform, and not will Reform and the Tories collectively have enough seats.

The SNP got absolutely stuffed in the 2024 GE, losing 37 seats. It's easy for people to dismiss that as part of the GTTO phenomenon (and that played a part) but the campaign to toxify & discredit the SNP, not just from all opposition parties, but from every corner of print, broadcast & online media was overwhelming. I think Swinney - quite realistically - thinks that can happen again.

SNP 1&2 pretty much guarantees list seats if they get wiped out in the constituencies. And this time, a lot of the NOTTHESNP vote will go to Reform.

We're talking about Scottish Labour here. Anything that sticks it to the nats.

Exactly this. Keep The Nats Out transcends any political differences.

 

[Pblakeney]

The SNP got absolutely stuffed in the 2024 GE, losing 37 seats. It's easy for people to dismiss that as part of the GTTO phenomenon (and that played a part) but the campaign to toxify & discredit the SNP, not just from all opposition parties, but from every corner of print, broadcast & online media was overwhelming. I think Swinney - quite realistically - thinks that can happen again.

SNP 1&2 pretty much guarantees list seats if they get wiped out in the constituencies. And this time, a lot of the NOTTHESNP vote will go to Reform.



Exactly this. Keep The Nats Out transcends any political differences.

I think you would be 100% correct, if only Starmer wasn't screwing it up so badly, especially so on socialist policies.
Scottish Labour might be separate from Labour but people connect them and the last 1-1/2 years will cost Labour votes all over the UK.

 

[Xipe Totec]

I think you would be 100% correct, if only Starmer wasn't screwing it up so badly, especially so on socialist policies.
Scottish Labour might be separate from Labour but people connect them and the last 1-1/2 years will cost Labour votes all over the UK.

Hence Reform doing better as the 'anyone but the SNP' option

Fwiw Scottish Labour doesn't exist. It's the same party, head office in London, and registered as an 'accounting unit', not a party. Sarwar in Scotland is directly answerable to Starmer, who has been completely clear that Sarwar's policies are Starmer's policies. It's literally a branch office. London's paying for their campaign materials already.

 

[First Aspect]

We're talking about Scottish Labour here. Anything that sticks it to the nats.

Not that. Scottish Labour are somewhat independent, but they won't do that much to harm labour in the UK as a whole. As soon as any one part of labour we're to enter into any kind of coalition with Farage, he'd be all over it like a rash.

 

[Pblakeney]

Hence Reform doing better as the 'anyone but the SNP' option

Fwiw Scottish Labour doesn't exist. It's the same party, head office in London, and registered as an 'accounting unit', not a party. Sarwar in Scotland is directly answerable to Starmer, who has been completely clear that Sarwar's policies are Starmer's policies. It's literally a branch office. London's paying for their campaign materials already.

That just means they'll do worse than I originally thought.
I see it as mostly a 3 way split.