Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[Pblakeney]

I can appreciate the argument but I'm very against tax payers paying for politicians to lie to and deceive us.

Counter argument.
You can pay for it up front, or pay more in the long run. Covid contracts being a prime example.

 

[classic33]

We do postal votes, and have for about 18 years

Not possible. I started doing postal votes while working away from home, as per BoldonLad.

In that case then, from the full register, with amendments, that shows postal voters.
Copies made available to all candidates/parties in an election.
The list of who actually voted is made available to them around two months after an election, could also be used to get names and addresses.

 

[Pblakeney]

In that case then, from the full register, with amendments, that shows postal voters.
Copies made available to all candidates/parties in an election.
The list of who actually voted is made available to them around two months after an election, could also be used to get names and addresses.

Yeahbut, does that show who you voted for?
If so then the idea of an anonymous vote is false.

 

[classic33]

Yeahbut, does that show who you voted for?
If so then the idea of an anonymous vote is false.

No, it doesn't show who you voted for, just that you voted. But used with a street map, and a list of known voters for any party, it's possible to say that voters from a particular street or area voted for them.
They'll often not post such letters out to people who they know voted for them, in the same area, because it might lead to avoid "outing them".
Especially in an area that is more for one party than theirs.

You're instructed to fold the ballot paper, and not show it anyone else to maintain the secrecy of the ballot.

 

[Pblakeney]

No, it doesn't show who you voted for, just that you voted. But used with a street map, and a list of known voters for any party, it's possible to say that voters from a particular street or area voted for them.
They'll often not post such letters out to people who they know voted for them, in the same area, because it might lead to avoid "outing them".
Especially in an area that is more for one party than theirs.

You're instructed to fold the ballot paper, and not show it anyone else to maintain the secrecy of the ballot.

The bold bit is key. They either know, or they don't.
My wife is the only person who knows how I vote. In theory.

 

[briantrumpet]

The bold bit is key. They either know, or they don't.
My wife is the only person who knows how I vote. In theory.

Family voting? 😜

 

[TailWindHome]

The bold bit is key. They either know, or they don't.
My wife is the only person who knows how I vote. In theory.

They record what people tell them in canvassing

 

[Pblakeney]

Family voting? 😜

Well, we do talk. 😉
She doesn't influence my vote, and I wouldn't wish to influence hers.

 

[Pblakeney]

They record what people tell them in canvassing

Hard to do with a postal vote.
Also, who answers canvassers?

 

[Psamathe]

Yeahbut, does that show who you voted for?
If so then the idea of an anonymous vote is false.

A few years back I took "affront" that the political parties were given full electoral register AND the "Marked Register" by the Council. What anoyed me was "relevance" in that it was provided to all political parties irrespective of them putting up candidates in or near my consituency eg in my case (in Norfolk) the Norfolk council had provided the full electoral register and "Marked Register(s)" to a party calling itself "The Common People" who have only ever put forward one candidate in a Cornish constituency - so what business do they have getting my electoral recorded details?

So I put in formal "Subject Access Requests" on all Parties Norfolk Council had provided copies of any register to. Amazing results and learnt a lot eg

1. Conservatives had 13 A4 pages 99% of which was complete rubbish eg they had me recorded as leaving education before the age of 16 despite my having been in full time education through a couple of University degrees.
2. When somebody comes knocks on your door they record the outcome/summary on their Party databases
3. The privacy and IT systems in different parties are a complete mess, left hand not even knowing there is a right hand.
4. I even started getting party fund raising e-mails on the dedicated e-mail address I used for the Subject Access Requests eg
   

   "A Drinks Party with Robert Jenrick MP
   Norfolk & Suffolk Conservatives invite you to a drinks party with Robert Jenrick MP"

   (I didn't go but I did threaten the party with legal fees to get SPAMing stopped and failure to comply with a "Right to Erasure" request).

I then put in "right to erasure" requests to all those parties requiring them to erase all the data they were holing about me.

 

[Pblakeney]

A few years back I took "affront" that the political parties were given full electoral register AND the "Marked Register" by the Council. What anoyed me was "relevance" in that it was provided to all political parties irrespective of them putting up candidates in or near my consituency eg in my case (in Norfolk) the Norfolk council had provided the full electoral register and "Marked Register(s)" to a party calling itself "The Common People" who have only ever put forward one candidate in a Cornish constituency - so what business do they have getting my electoral recorded details?

So I put in formal "Subject Access Requests" on all Parties Norfolk Council had provided copies of any register to. Amazing results and learnt a lot eg

1. Conservatives had 13 A4 pages 99% of which was complete rubbish eg they had me recorded as leaving education before the age of 16 despite my having been in full time education through a couple of University degrees.
2. When somebody comes knocks on your door they record the outcome/summary on their Party databases
3. The privacy and IT systems in different parties are a complete mess, left hand not even knowing there is a right hand.
4. I even started getting party fund raising e-mails on the dedicated e-mail address I used for the Subject Access Requests eg
   
   (I didn't go but I did threaten the party with legal fees to get SPAMing stopped and failure to comply with a "Right to Erasure" request).

I then put in "right to erasure" requests to all those parties requiring them to erase all the data they were holing about me.

1. Sums up politics.
2. Only if you answer. 😉
3. Sums up politics.
4. Desperate.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Each individual donation is so (relatively) small that a self declaration would suffice

Would still be quite onerous if another party demanded it was checked to ensure fairness.
If you were going to have a self declared 'Do you have the right to vote?' question on your union joining form, you should also perhaps have a 'Do you consent to the union using your subs to support the political party of their choice?' question.

 

[Pblakeney]

Would still be quite onerous if another party demanded it was checked to ensure fairness.
If you were going to have a self declared 'Do you have the right to vote?' question on your union joining form, you should also perhaps have a 'Do you consent to the union using your subs to support the political party of their choice?' question.

It is nigh on 50 years since I started working.
I knew on day 1 that subs were used for political donations. For the record, I did not join a union once I left that closed shop.

 

[briantrumpet]

It is nigh on 50 years since I started working.
I knew on day 1 that subs were used for political donations. For the record, I did not join a union once I left that closed shop.

I had to join the MU when I was about 15 to play in a school choral concert with a pro orchestra, as every one of those musicians could have been expelled from the MU for playing with a non-union member. The MU published a monthly list of people who'd been expelled for exactly that reason.