Reparations For UK Role In Historic Slave Trade?

[Beebo]

My impression is a week ago all the talk was about an apology. Now all the talk is about financial reparations.

The problem seems to be that it is very difficult for a nation state to actually make a genuine apology, without opening the door for financial compensation.
Surely there should be a way of saying sorry without being liable for costs.

 

[secretsqirrel]

The problem seems to be that it is very difficult for a nation state to actually make a genuine apology, without opening the door for financial compensation.
Surely there should be a way of saying sorry without being liable for costs.

An acknowledgment that bad things happened seems to be the preferred route at the moment, rather than an apology.

It is a healthy debate to be had, but will never be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.

A better debate would be something more relevant to what is happening now regarding poorer non-polluting nations suffering from the global warming excesses of richer nations.

 

[Psamathe]

The problem seems to be that it is very difficult for a nation state to actually make a genuine apology, without opening the door for financial compensation.
Surely there should be a way of saying sorry without being liable for costs.

I guess that comes down to lawyers looking at detailed wording (both with and without punctuation).
I'd assumed that Tony Blair's apology was such an apology. I'm no lawyer so haven't bothered to examine the words but that some say it was an apology whilst others call it a non-apology suggests it went further than the broad "shameful chapter of history" and "We can, however, learn from the past" (from King Charles).

I remember the King of Netherlands trying to apologise and similarly some groups seeking reparations were complaining he was non-apologising (from memory he apologised for "failing to act"). Rutte tried to apologise (even using "I apologise ...") but many groups refused to even attend his speech as they sought money not words.

 

[Once a Wheeler]

These demands imply that there is such a thing as genetically inherited liability. It is the same thinking that leads to systems of revenge justice as were once practised by some medieval and earlier societies. If modern jews are not guilty for the death of Jesus, then no-one is guilty for things which they did not do or instigate themselves.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

These demands imply that there is such a thing as genetically inherited liability. It is the same thinking that leads to systems of revenge justice as were once practised by some medieval and earlier societies. If modern jews are not guilty for the death of Jesus, then no-one is guilty for things which they did not do or instigate themselves.

Well I'm pretty sure my family never owned slaves or benefitted directly from the slave trade.
Indirect benefit? I asked good old Google.

As a resident of the UK, you benefit indirectly from the historical infrastructure, economic development, and public institutions funded in part by the transatlantic slave trade, though historians and economists debate the exact scale of its modern impact.
Because wealth and infrastructure compound over generations, the profits generated during the 17th, 18th, and early 19th centuries became embedded in Britain’s foundational systems.

Areas of Indirect Benefit

• • Public Infrastructure and Cities: Profits from slave trading and slave-produced goods (like sugar, cotton, and tobacco) financed the expansion of major British ports, railways, canals, and urban centers—particularly in cities like London, Liverpool, Bristol, and Glasgow. In areas like Sheffield, local metalware and tool industries also grew by supplying goods used in the trade and on plantations.
  • Financial and Legal Institutions: Many foundational UK banks, insurance companies (such as Lloyd’s of London), and financial markets scaled up by insuring slave ships, financing voyages, and managing plantation mortgages. These institutions remain central to the modern British economy.
  • Cultural and Educational Landmarks: Wealth from slavery and the 1833 government compensation paid to former slave owners helped fund British museums, universities, art galleries, and stately homes—many of which are open to the public today (such as parts of the British Museum's founding collections and various National Trust properties).
  • Industrial Growth: Economic historians, following the thesis of historian Eric Williams, widely note that capital accumulated from the slave economy helped finance the British Industrial Revolution, which ultimately raised long-term living standards across the country.

 

[First Aspect]

These demands imply that there is such a thing as genetically inherited liability. It is the same thinking that leads to systems of revenge justice as were once practised by some medieval and earlier societies. If modern jews are not guilty for the death of Jesus, then no-one is guilty for things which they did not do or instigate themselves.

It's institutional liability that is being argued.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

It's institutional liability that is being argued.

Yes, but if govt was to pay out it would be from taxes. Ordinary peasants like myself might argue that we saw no benefit from what was an historic act.

 

[Pblakeney]

Yes, but if govt was to pay out it would be from taxes. Ordinary peasants like myself might argue that we saw no benefit from what was an historic act.

Can I claim back from Norway?
They are flush, I hear.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Can I claim back from Norway?
They are flush, I hear.

Do you have written proof of loss?

 

[Pblakeney]

Do you have written proof of loss?

Make it worth my while and I'll find out.

 

[Pblakeney]

Do you have written proof of loss?

Got me on a technicality.
I do have written records of the Germans causing irreparable damage. Maybe I could go back further...

 

[Rusty Nails]

Well I'm pretty sure my family never owned slaves or benefitted directly from the slave trade.
Indirect benefit? I asked good old Google.

As a resident of the UK, you benefit indirectly from the historical infrastructure, economic development, and public institutions funded in part by the transatlantic slave trade, though historians and economists debate the exact scale of its modern impact.
Because wealth and infrastructure compound over generations, the profits generated during the 17th, 18th, and early 19th centuries became embedded in Britain’s foundational systems.

Areas of Indirect Benefit

• • Public Infrastructure and Cities: Profits from slave trading and slave-produced goods (like sugar, cotton, and tobacco) financed the expansion of major British ports, railways, canals, and urban centers—particularly in cities like London, Liverpool, Bristol, and Glasgow. In areas like Sheffield, local metalware and tool industries also grew by supplying goods used in the trade and on plantations.
  • Financial and Legal Institutions: Many foundational UK banks, insurance companies (such as Lloyd’s of London), and financial markets scaled up by insuring slave ships, financing voyages, and managing plantation mortgages. These institutions remain central to the modern British economy.
  • Cultural and Educational Landmarks: Wealth from slavery and the 1833 government compensation paid to former slave owners helped fund British museums, universities, art galleries, and stately homes—many of which are open to the public today (such as parts of the British Museum's founding collections and various National Trust properties).
  • Industrial Growth: Economic historians, following the thesis of historian Eric Williams, widely note that capital accumulated from the slave economy helped finance the British Industrial Revolution, which ultimately raised long-term living standards across the country.

How much are you prepared to put into the reparation kitty to start it off, to make up for the indirect benefit you have?

 

[bobzmyunkle]

How much are you prepared to put into the reparation kitty to start it off, to make up for the indirect benefit you have?

It's complicated. As are most things, unless you're one of Stevo's ilk.

 

[Rusty Nails]

It's complicated.

Life is complicated.