Sandi Toksvig v Justin Welby

[BoldonLad]

On the surface this is a fair point.

However...

You are perfectly entitled to think that homosexuality is wrong, is a sin etc. I don't have a problem with that. You are entitled to your beliefs and equally I am entitled to debate my opinion with you. Neither of us has to be right.

Where I *do* have a problem however is that religion isn't just about what you believe - it's about going out and telling everyone else who thinks that your old man with superpowers on a cloud is right, everyone else is wrong and that if they disagree with you they should be stoned / banned / imprisoned / executed etc.

Fundamentalist religion says that everything in a Religious text is true, even if that text is non-explicit and contradictory. Christianity is supposed to be about love

it just turns out that Jesus forgot to list the terms and conditions, or he was really bad at "loving you".

Not a believer myself, and was with you, right up until you singled out just one of the many offenders.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I might be misremembering, but I recall Unkraut saying that although he had certain views on abortion etc he did not seek to change the law on these matters because he accepted society's concensus (I'm paraphrasing). Obviously people are free to think what they wish, and whilst we may not approve, as long as those beliefs don't lead to discrimination or other illegal behaviour like incitement to violence, we should actually defend their right to believe what they wish.

To be frank, people like Unkraut, who accept the law and are willing to debate the issues, are not the people we should be worrying about. We should worry about those who won't debate, and who don't think anyone else should be allowed to debate either.

 

[newfhouse]

To be frank, people like Unkraut, who accept the law and are willing to debate the issues, are not the people we should be worrying about. We should worry about those who won't debate, and who don't think anyone else should be allowed to debate either.

I agree. I think he is someone that can be helped towards the light.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Lol. He might well think the same about you.

 

[newfhouse]

Lol. He might well think the same about you.

I’m happy for him to think that.

 

[Unkraut]

How did god come into being? Where is the repeatable experiment that demonstrates or indicates its existence?

The God of the Bible is by definition uncreated, has never not existed. From everlasting to everlasting. Our minds cannot comprehend this.

Not being part of the physical universe nor dependent on it he cannot be discovered by science. The most science can do is to bear witness to the existence of God in the physical laws and complexity of the creation.

Not every issue in the world can be reduced to a binary right/wrong,

I agree. The bible does contain moral absolutes, but not everything in it is a moral absolute - though I used to mistakenly think so.

it's about going out and telling everyone else who thinks that your old man with superpowers on a cloud is

That is a very interesting concept of deity!

everyone else is wrong and that if they disagree with you they should be stoned / banned / imprisoned / executed etc.

A God who could create the heavens and the earth all in a week's work, and DNA in life has got to be wiser than men, generically understood. When the bible is disregarded it is always to the hurt of society and the individual.

There are no sanctions against sinful behaviour in the NT apart from being booted out, dealing with crime and punishment is the responsibility of government.

It is not a good idea imo when these two spheres are mixed up.

He might well think the same about you.

Thou hast beaten me to it!

 

[newfhouse]

Not being part of the physical universe nor dependent on it he cannot be discovered by science

How extraordinarily convenient.

 

[icowden]

Not a believer myself, and was with you, right up until you singled out just one of the many offenders.

To be fair, the reason for singling out just one, is that we are talking about the Archbishop Justin Welby rather than religion in general. But yes, other religions are equally problematic.

 

[Fab Foodie]

To be frank, people like Unkraut, who accept the law and are willing to debate the issues, are not the people we should be worrying about. We should worry about those who won't debate, and who don't think anyone else should be allowed to debate either.

@Unkraut to his credit debates here in good faith...as it were... despite the majority view being against his beliefs....
Much more than can be said of others with opposing views on other topics.

 

[matticus]

Where I *do* have a problem however is that religion isn't just about what you believe - it's about going out and telling everyone else who thinks that your old man with superpowers on a cloud is right, everyone else is wrong and that if they disagree with you they should be stoned / banned / imprisoned / executed etc.

Are we still talking about the Church of England? The modern-day one (as critiqued by MadameToksvig)?

 

[icowden]

Are we still talking about the Church of England? The modern-day one (as critiqued by MadameToksvig)?

Yep. It's become really extreme lately. Some of those Alpha courses are really quite aggressive...

 

[matticus]

Yep. It's become really extreme lately. Some of those Alpha courses are really quite aggressive...

pffft - I got out with minor scarring. Shoulda seen the other guys.

 

[Bazzer]

pffft - I got out with minor scarring. Shoulda seen the other guys.

Should have been a Roman Catholic. The "other guys" would consider themselves lucky.