Save Bookshops

[Mugshot]

And there we have the classic example of why some businesses fail

How so, of the companies referred to only one has failed, the book shop. although of course they didn't fail, they closed.

If they don't provide customers with what customers want, then they won't survive.
It's pretty simple really and it applies in most lines of business.

Your hatred of Amazon doesn't change the fact that to survive, businesses must supply customers needs, not expect customers to adapt to the business.

Where do they fail, and how do they address that?
We have an example up thread of someone wanting a tele delivered next day, fitted and the old one taking away, I know a number of retailers locally that will do that, even in the one horse town where I live, I'm sure our correspondent would have similar where they live. Hell, they could go and pick one up from the shop and plug the thing in themselves, today.

What the internet, or more correctly the way it's regulated, has done, because it's not a level playing field, is create a market where one lot cannot compete with the other lot in one of the areas that customers deem important, price, even though in just about every other area the high street beats the internet hands down.

You keep trotting out the adapt or die mantra. How do you adapt to something you cannot compete with? I could give you a string of examples to show why the high street cannot and will not ever be able to compete with the internet on price, unless the rules are changed, but right now, they're not fair, it's not a level playing field, and one side has a massive advantage over the other that could only be addressed with regulation.
I'm all for competition, it's necessary and important, and it's also far better for the customer, what's happening, or happened, despite your protestations, is worse for the consumer and worse for local communities.

It's not competition if one side can't compete.

 

[BoldonLad]

Repeating the same mantra doesn't stop it from being simplistic cobblers, you know.

That is very true. But, equally applicable to the counter point of view IMHO

 

[BoldonLad]

How so, of the companies referred to only one has failed, the book shop. although of course they didn't fail, they closed.

Where do they fail, and how do they address that?
We have an example up thread of someone wanting a tele delivered next day, fitted and the old one taking away, I know a number of retailers locally that will do that, even in the one horse town where I live, I'm sure our correspondent would have similar where they live. Hell, they could go and pick one up from the shop and plug the thing in themselves, today.

What the internet, or more correctly the way it's regulated, has done, because it's not a level playing field, is create a market where one lot cannot compete with the other lot in one of the areas that customers deem important, price, even though in just about every other area the high street beats the internet hands down.

You keep trotting out the adapt or die mantra. How do you adapt to something you cannot compete with? I could give you a string of examples to show why the high street cannot and will not ever be able to compete with the internet on price, unless the rules are changed, but right now, they're not fair, it's not a level playing field, and one side has a massive advantage over the other that could only be addressed with regulation.
I'm all for competition, it's necessary and important, and it's also far better for the customer, what's happening, or happened, despite your protestations, is worse for the consumer and worse for local communities.

It's not competition if one side can't compete.

I think, you ar referring to my post, above.

I didn't say I WANTED next day delivery, or, the old one taking away, or installation. I said the online retailer I mentioned (not Amazon) could provide those services.

I also know retailers locally who would do similar, but, although the might be "local" (ie within ten miles of my home), but, they are not actually local Companies (John Lewis and Richer Sounds). As for "go and pick one up", yes, a very practical proposition, carrying a 50" TV on a bicycle, the bus or metro? No, of course not, take the car, very environmentally friendly, oh, and watch out for the Extinction Rebellion Protesters.

For what it is worth, I did buy my TV "locally" (if you call Richer Sounds a local retailer), their price was competitive and their SERVICE is excellent.

 

[theclaud]

Bolders has a point, of course (not the one directly above, but the earlier one the High Street not being able to go back to a golden age of retail, and about shopping not necessarily being desirable as an end in itself). Whilst there's a lot that can be done to make things fairer and make conditions more favourable for small/independent shops, that needs to be part of a bigger vision of what High Streets and city centres are for. And parking up to load a TV from a shop, even a small independent one, is not it. And Tory and Labour governments, local and national, have been complicit in the hollowing out of town and city centres - I regard this as one of the main reasons for Labour being held in contempt or distrust in areas where it was once strong, and also one of the reasons for the perception that 'they are all the same'. In fact, I largely blame Brexit on this kind of thing. To wander through the deserted centre of Port Talbot (if you can find the centre at all for motorways and through-roads), or to see little blue-and-yellow logos adorning bits of highway infrastructure on the road to nowhere up the valley, is to understand the impulse behind the Brexit vote in a very visceral way.

 

[Mugshot]

That is very true. But, equally applicable to the counter point of view IMHO

Well, not really, one point of view is suggesting that the playing field in the competition between high street and internet retailers slopes very dramatically in one direction, and that there is nothing realistically that the disadvantage side can do to combat it, something that bricks and mortar have been highlighting for years, warning that if it wasn't controlled then it would lead to the end of town centre shopping. Whilst also acknowledging that times change and the high street needed to adapt it's trading model to compete effectively.
The other view is saying, tough they should have done something about it then.

 

[BoldonLad]

Bolders has a point, of course (not the one directly above, but the earlier one the High Street not being able to go back to a golden age of retail, and about shopping not necessarily being desirable as an end in itself). Whilst there's a lot that can be done to make things fairer and make conditions more favourable for small/independent shops, that needs to be part of a bigger vision of what High Streets and city centres are for. And parking up to load a TV from a shop, even a small independent one, is not it. And Tory and Labour governments, local and national, have been complicit in the hollowing out of town and city centres - I regard this as one of the main reasons for Labour being held in contempt or distrust in areas where it was once strong, and also one of the reasons for the perception that 'they are all the same'. In fact, I largely blame Brexit on this kind of thing. To wander through the deserted centre of Port Talbot (if you can find the centre at all for motorways and through-roads), or to see little blue-and-yellow logos adorning bits of highway infrastructure on the road to nowhere up the valley, is to understand the impulse behind the Brexit vote in a very visceral way.

OMG, not sure I can take the shock!

But, thank you anyway.

I don't know how to solve it, but, I do know that doing a "King Canute" is not the solution.

 

[Mugshot]

I think, you ar referring to my post, above.

I didn't say I WANTED next day delivery, or, the old one taking away, or installation. I said the online retailer I mentioned (not Amazon) could provide those services.

I also know retailers locally who would do similar, but, although the might be "local" (ie within ten miles of my home), but, they are not actually local Companies (John Lewis and Richer Sounds). As for "go and pick one up", yes, a very practical proposition, carrying a 50" TV on a bicycle, the bus or metro? No, of course not, take the car, very environmentally friendly, oh, and watch out for the Extinction Rebellion Protesters.

For what it is worth, I did buy my TV "locally" (if you call Richer Sounds a local retailer), their price was competitive and their SERVICE is excellent.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, or TC above. The internet has brought a new way of shopping, the golden age , if that's what it was, of town centre shopping has gone. But there are of course other factors to it, out of town shopping, extortionate rents and rates that are calculated on an outdated model. The high street had to change, or remodel, the decimation of it could have been avoided.

I have no issue with internet shopping, where I part ways with other posters is when convenience or they should just adapt is used as the catch all for empty high streets. Level the playing field, sort out the rents, sort out the landlords, modernise the rates calculation, change the planning, stop the vested interests of council members from prevented businesses from moving in, send out the council workers with a pot of paint and sweeping brush etc etc.

It's not just a matter of adapting, it needs root and branch reform, it's complicated, but if you want the high street back, and I think most people do in some form or other, maybe start with the internet and the mega corps..

 

[BoldonLad]

I don't disagree with what you're saying, or TC above. The internet has brought a new way of shopping, the golden age , if that's what it was, of town centre shopping has gone. But there are of course other factors to it, out of town shopping, extortionate rents and rates that are calculated on an outdated model. The high street had to change, or remodel, the decimation of it could have been avoided.

I have no issue with internet shopping, where I part ways with other posters is when convenience or they should just adapt is used as the catch all for empty high streets. Level the playing field, sort out the rents, sort out the landlords, modernise the rates calculation, change the planning, stop the vested interests of council members from prevented businesses from moving in, send out the council workers with a pot of paint and sweeping brush etc etc.

It's not just a matter of adapting, it needs root and branch reform, it's complicated, but if you want the high street back, and I think most people do in some form or other, maybe start with the internet and the mega corps..

Of course there are other factors to it.

That was my whole point, kicking Bezos in the balls might be therapeutic, but, it will not return the High Street to it's former glory.

The genie is out of the bottle.

 

[Mugshot]

Of course there are other factors to it.

That was my whole point, kicking Bezos in the balls might be therapeutic, but, it will not return the High Street to it's former glory.

The genie is out of the bottle.

I think that's what I said [winking smilie]

 

[matticus]

Of course there are other factors to it.

That was my whole point, kicking Bezos in the balls might be therapeutic, but, it will not return the High Street to it's former glory.

The genie is out of the bottle.

With the current Gov approach to [taxes ,employment law, planning ... see earlier pages for full list] , and the way the intert works [see eBay, Google ... ] someone like Bezos was bound to exploit that space.
You're naive if you think/thought otherwise.
Bezos ain't special!

 

[BoldonLad]

With the current Gov approach to [taxes ,employment law, planning ... see earlier pages for full list] , and the way the intert works [see eBay, Google ... ] someone like Bezos was bound to exploit that space.
You're naive if you think/thought otherwise.
Bezos ain't special!

Quite, I said that several pages ago, post 49, page 4, in reply to your good self.

It is not me raving on about Amazon and Bezos.

The "old" High Street model has gone, it is not coming back. By all means, tax the online retailers, by all means update the rating system (although the last PM who had the "balls" to do that got a bloody nose), but, none of this will bring back "Main Street 1960", adapt or die, Dawinism rules.

 

[matticus]

... but now you're making out that this is all Anti-Bezos.
I'm just pointing out that it ain't.

 

[matticus]

We don't want a market+legislation where this happens.
Just as people chose to end slavery.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

We have an example up thread of someone wanting a tele delivered next day, fitted and the old one taking away, I know a number of retailers locally that will do that, even in the one horse town where I live, I'm sure our correspondent would have similar where they live. Hell, they could go and pick one up from the shop and plug the thing in themselves, today.

online retailers offer the same service, but intrestingly, for example on facebook marketplace, gumtree and such you have lots of smaller local bussinessmen and women, who for example dive in the the niche of second hand appliances and take over this service where you just talking about. On the other hand it is also a fact that people watch less television and watch in a different way and the average price of a television went down, well the difference between brands ha been reduced.

What the internet, or more correctly the way it's regulated, has done, because it's not a level playing field, is create a market where one lot cannot compete with the other lot in one of the areas that customers deem important, price, even though in just about every other area the high street beats the internet hands down.

That is simply not true it is simplistic way seeing something because the alternative is having to accept the fact that society changes. Looking at online/offline retailers that are successful like Argos, Screwfix, B&q the main difference is there online systems work, if i need a screwdriver from b&q but i need to shop in the physical shop to the screws to compare them to the one i seek to replace than i can do that, because i can reserve a screwdriver online, collect it within the hour and then go in the to find the other bits where i need physical comparison for.

You keep trotting out the adapt or die mantra. How do you adapt to something you cannot compete with?

if that's the answer you give as bussiness owner, my advise would be put a sign ''close down sale'' on the windows and stop. Running a company is all about adapting.

I could give you a string of examples to show why the high street cannot and will not ever be able to compete with the internet on price, unless the rules are changed, but right now, they're not fair, it's not a level playing field, and one side has a massive advantage over the other that could only be addressed with regulation.

No it can only be addressed with the right adaptations, way to talk to customers and so futher and so forth you keep mentioning the price but that actually one of the few things you can clearly communicate in a webshop where in a store you have the smile, display, experience and so on.