Till Lindemann

[AndyRM]

You may or may not have heard of the lead singer of Rammstein, but he's been in the news recently accused of "grooming" a fan for sex:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65843882

There aren't many details, and I know that speculation can be unhelpful, but as a fan of the band I've been discussing it with friends.

This may be controversial, but the whole scenario seems a bit weird to me. Firstly, the woman in question, Shelby Lynn, says that no assault took place, so there's that for starters. Secondly, I know the whole groupie thing is a f*cked up power dynamic, and not one I'm a fan of, but there's no way (in my mind) she didn't know what she was getting into. Perfectly fine for her to change her mind and clearly she got herself out of a situation she didn't want to be in.

The drink spiking aspect is entirely plausible, but without a toxicology report will never be known. As for getting wrecked and throwing up at a party, that's entirely on her and I don't think it's fair to try and conflate them.

I will admit I have a lot of mixed feelings about this: if it's proven my Rammstein stuff will be going in the bin, but I don't understand why if nothing has actually happened Till should be publicly accused like this.

Thoughts?

 

[AuroraSaab]

If she is to be believed, there was no assault because she said 'No'. At which point he got angry and left. Many girls and women trapped in a small room with a male might not feel able to be so assertive.

I think the worse you can say is she was a bit naive, but it does look at face value as though girls were being selected purely with the intention of him having sex with them. I certainly wouldn't call her a groupie who knew what she was getting into. I haven't seen the other women's similar allegations so can't say if their situation is the same.

If this had been your daughter would you feel she had been groomed? Set up to be in a situation it was difficult to get out of? Coerced? I think I would definitely feel she was set up to be taken advantage of to put it mildly. The spiked drink suggests that was the plan - in which case it would be rape, surely.

It's unacceptable behaviour to my mind, probably still rife in the entertainment industry and always has been, and needs to be called out when it does come to light, even when it's our heroes.

 

[AndyRM]

If she is to be believed, there was no assault because she said 'No'. At which point he got angry and left. Many girls and women trapped in a small room with a male might not feel able to be so assertive.

I think the worse you can say is she was a bit naive, but it does look at face value as though girls were being selected purely with the intention of him having sex with them. I certainly wouldn't call her a groupie who knew what she was getting into. I haven't seen the other women's similar allegations so can't say if their situation is the same.

If this had been your daughter would you feel she had been groomed? Set up to be in a situation it was difficult to get out of? Coerced? I think I would definitely feel she was set up to be taken advantage of to put it mildly. The spiked drink suggests that was the plan - in which case it would be rape, surely.

It's unacceptable behaviour to my mind, probably still rife in the entertainment industry and always has been, and needs to be called out when it does come to light, even when it's our heroes.

I agree with elements of what you're saying.

Firstly, I'm glad she was assertive enough to say no. Storming out of the room in a huff on his part is poor and doesn't come across well, but if he didn't force himself on her, then, that's that really.

I think groomed is a loaded word in this case, as it has certain inevitable connotations. Coerced to be in the situation, certainly.

As for the drink spiking, it's tough, because the suggestion seems to be that it was after the gig and no mention of where the party was or if anyone from Rammstein was even there.

Again getting into the current vagaries of the situation, I don't think on one hand you can say she was assertive, but then also naive?

I suppose that's why I'm struggling a bit really, because I totally agree that these behaviours need to be called out, but not in the way this has been.

It will be interesting to see what comes of the band's investigation: I'd hope they'll be totally transparent and honest, but as has often happened in situations like this I doubt we'll ever know the full truth. When it comes to Rammstein though, that may be different, they've owned their more controversial moments pretty well in the past.

 

[AuroraSaab]

A bit naive to believe the person who denied it was a sex thing; assertive to say No to an entitled male when in a small room, alone, in an unfamiliar place. Not necessarily contradictory behaviour.

What other avenue could she take to highlight this behaviour? Unlikely the police would get involved. And it has made others come forward. Yes, there will always be people looking for fame or money by making untrue allegations, but there's also a lot of stuff that goes unreported and condoned.

 

[AndyRM]

I've had a look through her Twitter (@Shelbys69666) where all this came to light. It's not especially enlightening as it's the usual Twitter swamp of back and forth nonsense, but there are accounts from a couple of other people claiming similar behaviour by Till. And that apparently the Russian woman has links with Marilyn Manson, which is another red flag.

Personally this has just confused me more, as I don't really understand the legal precedent for these kind of interactions. As far as I can see there's nothing that could really be used as evidence? Although she has reported it to the police so I suppose they'll be carrying out their own investigations.

Could have some pretty far reaching consequences if anything comes of those.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Fame and money corrupts people. There are several artists I really liked, still do, but their alleged behaviour has kind of tainted my enjoyment of their stuff a bit even if the stories weren't verified.

 

[Beebo]

Being given front row access and invites to the after show party based purely on looks doesn’t look good.
They are being given something on the understanding that other things will be offered in return. I suspect some women are very happy to go along with it.
If others come forward he could be in trouble.
But as said above I’m sure plenty of famous artists have used similar techniques, and still boast about their many conquests.

 

[AndyRM]

Fame and money corrupts people. There are several artists I really liked, still do, but their alleged behaviour has kind of tainted my enjoyment of their stuff a bit even if the stories weren't verified.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I used to really like Megadeth, but then Dave Mustaine turned into a colossal bell-end, most notably refusing to play at a festival in Greece because Rotting Christ, a Greek black metal band were on the bill. Rotting Christ pulled out.

 

[AndyRM]

Being given front row access and invites to the after show party based purely on looks doesn’t look good.
They are being given something on the understanding that other things will be offered in return. I suspect some women are very happy to go along with it.
If others come forward he could be in trouble.
But as said above I’m sure plenty of famous artists have used similar techniques, and still boast about their many conquests.

Pretty sure it's Gene Simmons who has boasted about sleeping with over 5,000 women and having Polaroids of every one... That's just creepy.

 

[AuroraSaab]

John Lennon springs to mind too. I think it was considered a perk of the job if you were famous and there was no social push back about the age or status difference. I find it easier to enjoy their stuff again once they're dead, I'll admit.

I suspect most of our idols have feet of clay if you look hard enough, especially the music ones.

 

[AndyRM]

John Lennon springs to mind too. I think it was considered a perk of the job if you were famous and there was no social push back about the age or status difference. I find it easier to enjoy their stuff again once they're dead, I'll admit.

I suspect most of our idols have feet of clay if you look hard enough, especially the music ones.

John Peel married a very young girl too.

 

[AuroraSaab]

There are some very concerning stories about John Peel. I know they are renaming the JP stage at Glastonbury but could just be coincidence. Jerry Lee Lewis married a 13 year old when he was 22. How the feck was that even allowed.

 

[Deleted member 121]

Till Linderman is a crazy barsteward and i reckon anything is possible. I like me their music though.

 

[AndyRM]

The German police have begun their investigations into the allegations:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-65913988