Times article about a racist old drunk

[Ian H]

Thanks to Keith Flett for the tweet. Has anyone got a link to the full article?

View: https://twitter.com/kmflett/status/1743772830230057106

 

[classic33]

This one?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-and-became-a-hero-on-the-no-26-bus-bswd3c56g

 

[Ian H]

This one?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...-and-became-a-hero-on-the-no-26-bus-bswd3c56g

No.

 

[Ian H]

Thanks to Sam, who lurks here, for supplying a link to the full article: https://archive.is/E5LAx

Fighting Retreat by Walter Reid review — was Churchill racist? Yes
Appalled by attacks on the wartime leader, a historian investigated his record. The truth was painful. By Gerard DeGroot

It should be said that a review of the same book in the Telegraph found Reid's conclusions 'offensive'.

 

[The Crofted Crest]

Thanks to Sam, who lurks here, for supplying a link to the full article: https://archive.is/E5LAx

Thanks, Sam.

 

[slowmotion]

Churchill wasn't an utter saint?????
I think most people know that. He did have some virtues though.

 

[multitool]

Churchill wasn't an utter saint?????
I think most people know that. He did have some virtues though.

Do most people know that? He has been effectively beatified, and an suggestion that he might not be is treated as heresy.


View: https://youtu.be/Iy8Bt_V971o?si=VobvBHFGMouY7qM2

 

[multitool]

As for his "virtues", can I assume you are referring to standing up to Hitler?

Whilst undeniably true, when you look at the sorts of things Churchill said, and in some cases did, you realise that he wasn't so very far away from his vaunted enemy

 

[matticus]

Churchill wasn't an utter saint?????

Shock! Why hasn't this been mentioned on NACA before?!? Luckily Ian's here to write right this wrong.

 

[Ian H]

Shock! Why hasn't this been mentioned on NACA before?!? Luckily Ian's here to write right this wrong.

You're in full trite smiley mode today old chap.

 

[slowmotion]

As for his "virtues", can I assume you are referring to standing up to Hitler?

Whilst undeniably true, when you look at the sorts of things Churchill said, and in some cases did, you realise that he wasn't so very far away from his vaunted enemy

View attachment 5333

Could I gently suggest that you might possibly lack a sense of proportion?

 

[multitool]

Could I gently suggest that you might possibly lack a sense of proportion?

No, you may not.

What you may do is try shouting this in a German accent and see if you get the point.

"I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place"

 

[AuroraSaab]

Probably not an uncommon view for a posh English man born in the 1870's. Superiority and justification through paternalism. It's the fact that he didn't then go on to systematically kill 6 million Jews (or other groups) that makes your assertion that "you realise that he wasn't so very far away from his vaunted enemy" lack a sense of proportion.

It's actually quite a long way away from his vaunted enemy. I'd go as far as to say he wasn't very close to being Hitler at all to be honest.

 

[Ian H]

Probably not an uncommon view for a posh English man born in the 1870's. Superiority and justification through paternalism. It's the fact that he didn't then go on to systematically kill 6 million Jews (or other groups) that makes your assertion that "you realise that he wasn't so very far away from his vaunted enemy" lack a sense of proportion.

It's actually quite a long way away from his vaunted enemy. I'd go as far as to say he wasn't very close to being Hitler at all to be honest.

From the article:-
Reid feels that Churchill’s attitude was racist not just by the standards of our time, but also by those of his own...
...When “uncivilised” people misbehaved, he had no qualms about using overwhelming force. At the Colonial Office from 1921-22, he displayed extreme brutality in response to uprisings. “I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes,” he argued.

 

[multitool]

Is this a good time to mention the Bengal famine?