You just have to accept that you've been shafted.

[newfhouse]

It is taking a long time

Is it?

 

[BoldonLad]

You can measure that against a number of factors.

A few pointers. Under the Ceausescu regime.

- Freedom of the press - News transmissions was limited to political leaders only.

- Television signals was transmitted 2 hours a day.

- Abortion was illegal and resulted in the deaths of over 10000 women who forced to use unconventional methods to abort

- Going to Church was illegal

- Emigration was illegal

- Romanians had to eat a "government scientific approved" diet.

- Petrol was rationed to 20 litres a month.

I think it is unreasonable for any revolution to translate into immediate improvements in quality of life, but i personally feel, as an outsider, with no relationship at all with Romania, that they are better off now financially, socially, materially and politically. What say you?

It depends on the factors you measure, and, as I said, who benefits.

 

[Deleted member 121]

It depends on the factors you measure, and, as I said, who benefits.

Well you quizzed me. What do you think? What factors would you measure against?

 

[BoldonLad]

Is it?

30 years is a long time, in Human life span terms, at least, in my book, perhaps, not in yours.

 

[BoldonLad]

Well you quizzed me. What do you think? What factors would you measure against?

IMHO, the population, generally, would be more inclined to measure in materialistic terms ie washing machines, fridges etc. I don't doubt that they are better off in those terms, but, how do we prove that is a result of the revolution?

 

[Deleted member 121]

IMHO, the population, generally, would be more inclined to measure in materialistic terms ie washing machines, fridges etc. I don't doubt that they are better off in those terms, but, how do we prove that is a result of the revolution?

They are also better off in terms of freedom of press, life expectancy, emigration, rights, womens rights etc. Ceausescu with his anti emigration stance would have almost certainly not allowed Romania to join the EU which when you look at the GDP stats, immeasurably improved their wealth.

 

[BoldonLad]

They are also better off in terms of freedom of press, life expectancy, emigration, rights, womens rights etc. Ceausescu with his anti emigration stance would have almost certainly not allowed Romania to join the EU which when you look at the GDP stats, immeasurably improved their wealth.

I don't doubt they are better off in EU (as were we), but, that does not mean that Revolution was the only way to achieve that end, Ceausescu would not have lived forever, Government would have changed, they (Romania) may have got there anyway.

 

[Deleted member 121]

I don't doubt they are better off in EU (as were we), but, that does not mean that Revolution was the only way to achieve that end, Ceausescu would not have lived forever, Government would have changed, they (Romania) may have got there anyway.

Now we're into the realms of crystal balls. This will lead to nowhere.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Now we're into the realms of crystal balls. This will lead to nowhere.

If we're into the realms of crystal balls talking about whether Romanians would have been better off now whether they got rid of Caucescu or not, then we really are in a self-indulgent fantasy land even talking about the regime of Caucescu and the conditions of the people there in the same breath as the government of even the current Tory rabble and the conditions of people in this country, never mind the possibility of a revolution here.

If enough people think for themselves, and not just of themselves, we can get rid of this government for one we deserve...or perhaps we have the government we deserve.

 

[Deleted member 121]

If we're into the realms of crystal balls talking about whether Romanians would have been better off now whether they got rid of Caucescu or not, then we really are in a self-indulgent fantasy land even talking about the regime of Caucescu and the conditions of the people there in the same breath as the government of even the current Tory rabble and the conditions of people in this country, never mind the possibility of a revolution here.

If enough people think for themselves, and not just of themselves, we can get rid of this government for one we deserve...or perhaps we have the government we deserve.

I agree with you.

I am completely set up for life. I am the epitome of the Englishman's home is his castle type. I work for myself and haven't had an employer for many many years. Own my own house (insert more Tory wet dreams here) I should love the Tory government, sod everyone else... But i don't. I want nothing from anybody but i don't want people to suffer. I know people are suffering. I have a friend who has Agoraphobia and has nothing. I have a mother with mental health problems a retired dad who loves the Tories, no matter what but the mental health services are underfunded and my dear old mom can't get the help she needs. I do my best but i ain't qualified for it. We live in a society and as a society we are sick. On the one hand you have insane hateful sycophants and on the other you have people desperately trying to muddy the waters and claim no government has the power to change peoples fortunes and they're all the same. It's bollocks. Of course it/they can. Change is possible and people don't have to suffer. We can change the conditions in which we live in. It is not a foregone conclusion that water companies in England need to be privatised, neither is it that the NHS be on it's knees. It's not a foregone conclusion that claiming disability benefits causes so much stress that people kill themselves. It's not a foregone conclusion that pensioners receive a lower flat rate pension than Ireland and Denmark. Does that mean we all absolve ourselves of social obligations such as work and we all get free money? No, that is only for the elite rich. Does that mean we have no personal responsibility? No. Would i pay more taxes to achieve this? Yes. I fücking would, i'll put my money where my mouth is, always have done. I quit driving when i was challenged. I sold the car and ride a bike. I lost 13 and a half stone when i was told i couldn't do it. I have walked the walk, i might mention it from time to time but i want absolutely nothing in return but we all know that won't solve it, until a Government stops beating it's citizens with a proverbial stick and treating everyone who falls by the wayside like worthless scum.

The Fücking End....