AI fails

[PurplePenguin]

OK re all that, but I'd still not use AI to come up with something so generic/vapid. I could do that all by myself. By the time I'd pressed the AI buttons, (or while I was having a shït or a shower if that's the only thinking time I've got), I think I'd manage something. But then, I know our approaches to AI are probably at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I don't use AI much.

That said for exercises like this that only exist in the world of schools, I might be tempted in order to understand the game being played. Whenever I visit schools, they all proudly boast about their core values which are listed everywhere and truly fulfil the expectation of vapid nonsense, but it's easy for me - I ignore them; however, the poor kids are expected to engage with them in some way.

 

[PurplePenguin]

The great thing about AI is that it always agrees with you. I asked it what it thought of my made up school values: enjoy, learn and grow. (This contrasts with the usual things such as respect, resilience, kindness, integrity, and perseverance). AI thinks mine are great. The problem though is that I can have this sort of banter with a retired teacher, but kids don't get a fair crack at arguing for better values, and life is easier if they conform.

 

[Rusty Nails]

The great thing about AI is that it always agrees with you. I asked it what it thought of my made up school values: enjoy, learn and grow. (This contrasts with the usual things such as respect, resilience, kindness, integrity, and perseverance). AI thinks mine are great. The problem though is that I can have this sort of banter with a retired teacher, but kids don't get a fair crack at arguing for better values, and life is easier if they conform.

Or they could argue with AI, which will agree with everything they say.

The AI companies would love all kids to do this, further decreasing their ability/confidence in dealing with actual, you know, humans...who might occasionally not agree 100% with them.

 

[briantrumpet]

I don't use AI much.

That said for exercises like this that only exist in the world of schools, I might be tempted in order to understand the game being played. Whenever I visit schools, they all proudly boast about their core values which are listed everywhere and truly fulfil the expectation of vapid nonsense, but it's easy for me - I ignore them; however, the poor kids are expected to engage with them in some way.

Ha, I was just musing while I rode to Aldi whether you'd played a blinder by setting up a NCAP AI briantrumpet chatbot to disagree with anything I said on the subject (avoiding emojis, obvs), and I come back (with quiches and wonky grapes) and now I'm agreeing with you (or your tailored chatbot). Damn.

 

[PurplePenguin]

Or they could argue with AI, which will agree with everything they say.

The AI companies would love all kids to do this, further decreasing their ability/confidence in dealing with actual, you know, humans...who might occasionally not agree 100% with them.

On one school tour I did recently, the head proudly said "If you don't like the rules, then don't send your children here". There didn't seem to be much opportunity to disagree with him.

 

[briantrumpet]

Re your op about the senior manager/engineer at Yahoo and Google, I think that says more about her limitations and big tech's constant search to reduce the need for humans to tire themselves out by actually thinking things through than it does about AI.

Presumably Mayer would have to have input some ot the things her daughter does and likes for AI to have come up with those suggestions (or is her whole family's history on her AI "Assistant"?) and used her imagination, love and knowledge to arrive at something more personal.

There's something very sad about it.

Yes, I've lumped actual fails and what I think are suboptimal uses of it in the one thread.

Given her trust in AI, I'd not be surprised if the whole family and their house were under constant Google surveillance uses Google extensively, so has picked up conversations.

 

[briantrumpet]

On one school tour I did recently, the head proudly said "If you don't like the rules, then don't send your children here". There didn't seem to be much opportunity to disagree with him.

Not promising when the Head isn't curious about other points of view (two of the Briantrumpet Academy's 'values' would be 'embrace doubt' and 'feed curiousity', which would apply to the staff at least as much as the pupils).

 

[C R]

On one school tour I did recently, the head proudly said "If you don't like the rules, then don't send your children here". There didn't seem to be much opportunity to disagree with him.

There seems to be a bit too much of that nowadays. What academisation has a achieved is to line a few people's pockets and provide a means for power hungry loonies to fulfill their fantasies.

 

[Rusty Nails]

On one school tour I did recently, the head proudly said "If you don't like the rules, then don't send your children here". There didn't seem to be much opportunity to disagree with him.

If the teaching is any good there should be plenty to discuss and possibly disagree with within the curriculum subjects without getting involved in disagreement about the school rules. Apples and pears.

 

[briantrumpet]

If the teaching is any good there should be plenty to discuss and possibly disagree with within the curriculum subjects without getting involved in disagreement about the school rules. Apples and pears.

I'm guessing that one of PP's objections might have been around school uniform, which seems to be an important 'thing' in academy schools, and getting stricter/sillier rather than the other way around. I have a feeling that some of the local schools' rules would fall foul of discrimination rules, if a legally-minded parent wanted to be difficult (e.g, it looks like girls aren't allowed to wear trousers instead of skirts and black tights, if a recent ride where I passed lots as they came out of school was a representative sample).

 

[Rusty Nails]

I'm guessing that one of PP's objections might have been around school uniform, which seems to be an important 'thing' in academy schools, and getting stricter/sillier rather than the other way around. I have a feeling that some of the local schools' rules would fall foul of discrimination rules, if a legally-minded parent wanted to be difficult (e.g, it looks like girls aren't allowed to wear trousers instead of skirts and black tights, if a recent ride where I passed lots as they came out of school was a representative sample).

That's why I used apples and pears in my post when talking about teaching and school rules and their potential for disagreement.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I'm guessing that one of PP's objections might have been around school uniform, which seems to be an important 'thing' in academy schools, and getting stricter/sillier rather than the other way around. I have a feeling that some of the local schools' rules would fall foul of discrimination rules, if a legally-minded parent wanted to be difficult (e.g, it looks like girls aren't allowed to wear trousers instead of skirts and black tights, if a recent ride where I passed lots as they came out of school was a representative sample).

I did ask why, if the rules were so effective, their exam results were so poor. The teacher who answered blamed the kids - poor catchment area and all that.

My objection isn't just uniform. It's in an entire system that is not child centred. Instead of focusing on a long term goal of creating young adults who can think independently and have confidence, they try to break them into compliance with the same strategy the military adopts. AI tells me there has been no academic study which shows a correlation between uniform and results/behaviour.

 

[briantrumpet]

I did ask why, if the rules were so effective, their exam results were so poor. The teacher who answered blamed the kids - poor catchment area and all that.

My objection isn't just uniform. It's in an entire system that is not child centred. Instead of focusing on a long term goal of creating young adults who can think independently and have confidence, they try to break them into compliance with the same strategy the military adopts. AI tells me there has been no academic study which shows a correlation between uniform and results/behaviour.

Seems like a very fair question, especially if the policy has been adopted without questioning statistics. Seems a bit Birbalsingh-ish as a policy.

 

[briantrumpet]

You know what, I think I might have one or two problems with this 'vision' of AI-led education. I might have to decide whether to be a Luddite or a saboteur.

https://asugsvsummit.com/2026-ai-report

 

[PurplePenguin]

(or while I was having a shït or a shower if that's the only thinking time I've got),

There's probably a suitable emoji I should use, so that you don't take this too harshly, but it is comically naive that you think you get thinking time without interruptions during these activities.