Assisted Dying, Yes or No?

[Pblakeney]

Poor palliative care is a separate issue independent of assisted dying and should be resolved in any case.

 

[First Aspect]

It's not meant to be an alternative but poorer palliative care will push people towards assisted dying who may otherwise not have opted for it.

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You did say, and I quote, "An alternative... would be improved palliative care..."

Call me Mr Literal, bit this seems to infer that it's an alternative, in your opinion.

Which is fine, but discussing with you is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. Your position changes constantly. If you'd like a discussion with anyone on the issue, please can you make your mind up?

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm starting to think you're just Multitool. He disappeared as you appeared. It's the same continual ad hominem stuff. I obviously meant that an alternative to feeling pushed towards assisted dying would be high quality palliative care, not that the 2 options could never be available together.

It shouldn't be either/or but the view of end of life experts seems to be that people may feel pushed towards assisted dying if quality palliative care isn't available. In countries with assisted dying palliative care improves at a slower rate so assisted dying does look to impact other provision, in effect reducing choice not widening it.

 

[First Aspect]

So campaign for improved palliative care, then, not against assisted dying.

It seems to me that a corollary effect of the assisted dying debate will be precisely what you want, to shine a light on and ultimately improve provision of palliative care in the UK.

 

[classic33]

I'm starting to think you're just Multitool. He disappeared as you appeared. It's the same continual ad hominem stuff. I obviously meant that an alternative to feeling pushed towards assisted dying would be high quality palliative care, not that the 2 options could never be available together.

It shouldn't be either/or but the view of end of life experts seems to be that people may feel pushed towards assisted dying if quality palliative care isn't available. In countries with assisted dying palliative care improves at a slower rate so assisted dying does look to impact other provision, in effect reducing choice not widening it.

@First Aspect came from Bike Radar, which closed due to the new online safety legislation. Along with a few others on here, at the same time. Are they all the same person, simply because they dare to question you.

However, they are correct. You never actually say what it is that you want, in place of what you don't want, no viable alternatives have ever been offered by yourself. It is always just what you don't want.

Alternate views to your own do exist, you just need to get used to that fact, and the fact that other people have rights, which you cannot encroach on.

 

[First Aspect]

I'm Spartacus.

 

[First Aspect]

No, I'm Spartacus.

 

[briantrumpet]

I happen to know for a fact that @First Aspect's profile photo isn't actually of him.

He's actually the soup dragon, but got tired of everyone asking him if it was Heinz tomato soup.

 

[First Aspect]

I happen to know for a fact that @First Aspect's profile photo isn't actually of him.

He's actually the soup dragon, but got tired of everyone asking him if it was Heinz tomato soup.

This is true.

 

[AuroraSaab]

@First Aspect came from Bike Radar, which closed due to the new online safety legislation. Along with a few others on here, at the same time. Are they all the same person, simply because they dare to question you.

However, they are correct. You never actually say what it is that you want, in place of what you don't want, no viable alternatives have ever been offered by yourself. It is always just what you don't want.

Alternate views to your own do exist, you just need to get used to that fact, and the fact that other people have rights, which you cannot encroach on.

The viable alternative is to work through the issues further until a workable assisted dying piece of legislation is produced. It was never going to be a Yes/No issue - the side issues involved are many and complex - it will always be a 'Yes, if ...' type of discussion. The rest of your post is your usual bitter ranting.

 

[First Aspect]

The viable alternative is to work through the issues further until a workable assisted dying piece of legislation is produced. It was never going to be a Yes/No issue - the side issues involved are many and complex - it will always be a 'Yes, if ...' type of discussion. The rest of your post is your usual bitter ranting.

So, debate it in parliament, suggest amendments, go back and forth with the Lords a few times - that sort of thing?

Yes. I think they should do that.

 

[First Aspect]

By "workable" do you mean something that a majority of elected representatives support, or do you have some other test in mind?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Something that alays the fears of patient groups and experts. In the end it's a free vote by MP's, some of whom will be voting yes or no based on conscience alone rather than the actual legislation. That isn't ideal but it's how it works, so I'll accept whatever the result is. If this legislation goes through in it's current form hopefully patient advocates and experts will continue to push for safeguards.

 

[classic33]

The viable alternative is to work through the issues further until a workable assisted dying piece of legislation is produced. It was never going to be a Yes/No issue - the side issues involved are many and complex - it will always be a 'Yes, if ...' type of discussion. The rest of your post is your usual bitter ranting.

Pot, kettle and black springs to mind as it always does when answering your posts.

I've already said what my thoughts on this are, only to be told by yourself, it's not about me. "Me" in this case being the patient. The DNR mentioned is the nearest thing currently accepted under UK law to assisted dying.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Yes