Bad Weather & Attendance at School or Work

[spen666]

My advice here is that it is better to stick to what you know.

I am and I do.

 

[monkers]

I am and I do.

pffffffffff ....... you've been posting nonsense.

 

[spen666]

pffffffffff ....... you've been posting nonsense.

Your opinion is exactly that an opinion

 

[monkers]

Your opinion is exactly that an opinion

OK. In my opinion you are posting nonsense. This is my opinion because what you post is untrue.

It is not true that parents have a duty to send their child/children to school. This is a point correctly made earlier by @icowden beforehand. I troubled to post the correct legal position on this.

You present as somebody in or around the legal system. You've made a fundamental legal error. There is no legal duty on parents to send their children to school in the UK.

Secondly you've made assumption about school absenteeism and the number of school refusers. These assumptions are without evidence, and are not usually because parents fail to instil values.

The most usual cause of school absenteeism is illness - children are prone to illnesses. When children are ill, they should be kept out of school to prevent contagion.

The range of reasons for school refusal are myriad. They can not simply be reduced to the kinds of opinions that might be a typical find in the Daily Mail.

 

[icowden]

Secondly you've made assumption about school absenteeism and the number of school refusers. These assumptions are without evidence, and are not usually because parents fail to instil values.

The most usual cause of school absenteeism is illness - children are prone to illnesses. When children are ill, they should be kept out of school to prevent contagion.

Whilst I agree with you, ill children aren't usually the problem in terms of absenteeism. Illness can be demonstrated to the school and will count as an authorised absence. Unauthorised absences are usually about parenting. It *can* also be linked to mental health with some school refusers, but quite often there will be one of more of a lack of parenting skills / neglect, lack of boundaries, domestic violence in the home, addiction, criminality etc linked with the parent or parents which is influencing or even re-enforcing the absenteeism. At primary level schools will have home school link workers, and there will be engagement from social services to try to improve matters as it all falls under the remit of child protection.

Once you get to Secondary School a lot of that very close work that has been done at primary starts to just fall away and it's not long before the next generation of children get created by girls and boys who don't really have any idea how to parent, and who don't have good role models and supportive families to help them.

 

[AuroraSaab]

There's just a lot more engagement by parents with school when kids are in infant and juniors. You're in the playground, you're going to fairs and school events, there's just one teacher to liase with. All that falls away when they go to high school so getting parents to engage when there is a problem is that much harder.

 

[monkers]

Whilst I agree with you, ill children aren't usually the problem in terms of absenteeism. Illness can be demonstrated to the school and will count as an authorised absence. Unauthorised absences are usually about parenting. It *can* also be linked to mental health with some school refusers, but quite often there will be one of more of a lack of parenting skills / neglect, lack of boundaries, domestic violence in the home, addiction, criminality etc linked with the parent or parents which is influencing or even re-enforcing the absenteeism. At primary level schools will have home school link workers, and there will be engagement from social services to try to improve matters as it all falls under the remit of child protection.

Once you get to Secondary School a lot of that very close work that has been done at primary starts to just fall away and it's not long before the next generation of children get created by girls and boys who don't really have any idea how to parent, and who don't have good role models and supportive families to help them.

I didn't make the distinction between authorised and unauthorised absence. While that is true it remains true to say that just shy of half of all absences are due to illness.

I deliberately said that there is no one cause for school refusal - the reasons are myriad and then often intersectional. Therefore simplistic notions of 'it's feckless parents' really are not helpful. Each case is quite unique even if there are common features, and if the situation is to be resolved needs to be treated as such.

While I'm at this, I'll also refer to the previous fourteen years of under resourcing schools and colleges.

I was a school refuser myself. I once took sixteen months out of school, instead choosing to cycle every school day. The school failed to either notice at all or notify my parents. When I returned, the school were surprised to see me. Imagine my surprise when I was then told that despite them thinking I had left, that they had entered me for seven O levels. A case of the left hand being unacquainted with the right.

As a teacher I did this thing of telling each new class that I met that ''I hated school so much that it was inevitable that I became a teacher'', which invariably led to a useful discussion. Absenteeism from my lessons was very low.

 

[monkers]

There's just a lot more engagement by parents with school when kids are in infant and juniors. You're in the playground, you're going to fairs and school events, there's just one teacher to liase with. All that falls away when they go to high school so getting parents to engage when there is a problem is that much harder.

I agree. There's a valid criticism to be made here of secondary schools in my opinion.

 

[Electric_Andy]

The weather has no bearing on whether I WFH or go into the office. If I have face to face meetings I'll go in, if not I stay at home. This results in me staying home 99% of the time. The only reason my son wouldn't go in to school is if the school text me in the morning to say don't come in. This has happened once when we had gales last year. I'm probbaly a bit naive but I wouldn't have thought a bit of rain would be an excuse for any parent, no matter how lazy, to not ensure their kids were in school

 

[icowden]

I didn't make the distinction between authorised and unauthorised absence. While that is true it remains true to say that just shy of half of all absences are due to illness.

Yes, but authorised absences are allowed. Usually children who are ill make up their school work and schools help them out.

I deliberately said that there is no one cause for school refusal - the reasons are myriad and then often intersectional. Therefore simplistic notions of 'it's feckless parents' really are not helpful. Each case is quite unique even if there are common features, and if the situation is to be resolved needs to be treated as such.

Agreed. But it is frequently about parenting where unauthorised absences occur (at least at primary level - it changes at secondary).

 

[monkers]

Yes, but authorised absences are allowed. Usually children who are ill make up their school work and schools help them out.

Agreed. But it is frequently about parenting where unauthorised absences occur (at least at primary level - it changes at secondary).

Frequently parents are under-equipped in knowledge to know best how to help their child if school refusing. Anger alone is never the way forward.

Our differences are small so I think we can agree to leave it there.

 

[All uphill]

Yes, but authorised absences are allowed. Usually children who are ill make up their school work and schools help them out.

Agreed. But it is frequently about parenting where unauthorised absences occur (at least at primary level - it changes at secondary).

I've seen some great outcomes where parents work closely with schools to support 14 and 15 year old's improved attendance.

Imo any talk of fault or blame ends any chance of improvement. The language used needs to be about the best possible future for the child.

 

[mjr]

In the case of Sara Sharif, she was withdrawn from Primary School and home schooled. There are no legal requirements or forms to fill in to home school a child. *If* she was known to her Primary School as a child protection risk, then there should have been engagement from Social Services etc who could have prevented her being withdrawn. Otherwise there is no protection, no statutory inspection or checks.

That's not meant to be the case in England. There is a vague duty to check but overstretched council social services departments don't really have time to check on all homeschoolers as often as some may think they ought, so some things go astray, as in that tragedy. One summary of the current law is https://www.oxfordhomeschooling.co.uk/homeschooling-info/home-education-homeschool-laws/

Is it right to use that case to increase red tape on homeschoolers and take time away from their child's education? Children have been killed at school too.

 

[icowden]

That's not meant to be the case in England. There is a vague duty to check but overstretched council social services departments don't really have time to check on all homeschoolers as often as some may think they ought, so some things go astray, as in that tragedy.

You seem to have misread what I posted which entirely agrees with you *except* where the child is already known and being reviewed or on plan for child protection.

Is it right to use that case to increase red tape on homeschoolers and take time away from their child's education? Children have been killed at school too.

No one has suggested this? What has been suggested is that homeschooling should be subject to *some* checks.

 

[All uphill]

Local authorities do not have any powers to check on home schooling unless they have a reason to believe the child is not receiving a suitable education.

That reason has to be something a court would recognise as " reasonable".

A council officer just thinking Mr Smith is unlikely to be providing his child with a suitable education would not meet that standard.

Defining a "suitable"education is interesting; a judge once said its an education that does not preclude the child from making choices in the future. Try working with that...