Benefits Again

[albion]

The big test for Starmer is where next for cash clawback.
Last years pension rise decision belonged in the madhouse.

It should be sewn up that the big pocket rich are about to have somewhat smaller ones.

 

[winjim]

Isn't the winter fuel allowance one of those things for which it would cost more in administration to means test it than it would recoup?

I think we should feed all children, keep all of the elderly warm, and tax the everliving f*ck out of the rich in order to pay for it.

Here's someone more erudite than myself, explaining it better than I can.


View: https://x.com/DrFrancesRyan/status/1833430197682512222?t=SoJlGH1ch1uQTYoAqwZelg&s=19

 

[BoldonLad]

Obviously not because they aren't means tested.


True. Hadn't thought of that, It doesn't matter where you put the threshold, people will still complain.


Well yes. Many people would have started with properly taxing Amazon, Apple and Google for example.

winter fuel allowance wasn’t means tested until now, the thin end of the wedge perhaps?

Indeed, that is what Reeves and Starmer promised BEFORE the election, ie clamp down on the dodgers.

Maybe we should have a wealth tax which includes main residence value?, be ok for most of us behind the red wall 😊

 

[albion]

Isn't the winter fuel allowance one of those things for which it would cost more in administration to means test it than it would recoup?

Near the same or likely less cost. It will be a one off pension credit payment payment, unilke the current mix they likely do.

 

[BoldonLad]

Near the same or likely less cost. It will be a one off pension credit payment payment, unilke the current mix they likely do.

“Current mix”? What is that?

 

[albion]

Err, national pension and pension credit.

 

[albion]

‘They’ve robbed us’
https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/sep/10/uk-pensioners-losing-winter-fuel-payment
'I’ve always been a Conservative voter but last year I voted for Reform. The last few elections before that I didn’t vote for anyone as I was fed up with politics in general. The Conservatives under Boris Johnson were a shambles and Partygate was shocking, but I didn’t expect Labour to go ahead with this.
God knows what’s going to happen in the budget in October but they’ve [the government] robbed us pensioners.' John, 75, Hartlepool

So Johnson ruined his sunlit Brexit.

 

[Beebo]

It hopefully paves the way for tax rises on wealth in the budget.
plus it stops union’s pressure for high payrises, as if the pensioners have to suffer then we all have to suffer.
there must be some method in the madness.

 

[theclaud]

We need @multitool back to defend him

LOL. He's gone for the Fluff & Fuck Off strategy. To be fair, I would make myself scarce if I had ostentatiously backed this shitshow.

 

[icowden]

Maybe we should have a wealth tax which includes main residence value?, be ok for most of us behind the red wall 😊

There's a very good article here about why wealth taxes don't work:
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/05/10/wealth-taxes-wont-work/

The TLDR is that they don't work because it's going to be almost impossible to untangle the assets of the very wealthy to work out what their wealth is in order to tax it. Instead you tax on income and capital gains when that wealth is used in the UK. You close the offshore and non-dom loopholes so everyone pays a fair amount of tax. You could even get rid of the arbitrary tax banding jumps in favour of something much more progressive.

Another idea which works for me is that once an individual has a net worth of say £50 million, the government gives them a gong saying "you've won!" and any additional wealth that is generated is used for the benefit of the country. Maybe you could consult about what the wealth should go toward " we need a new hospital Lord Ashcroft - how does the Lord Ashcroft Memorial Hospital sound to you?". IIRC it's what the wealthy used to do - build schools, hospitals etc to show how generous they were.

 

[BoldonLad]

There's a very good article here about why wealth taxes don't work:
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/05/10/wealth-taxes-wont-work/

The TLDR is that they don't work because it's going to be almost impossible to untangle the assets of the very wealthy to work out what their wealth is in order to tax it. Instead you tax on income and capital gains when that wealth is used in the UK. You close the offshore and non-dom loopholes so everyone pays a fair amount of tax. You could even get rid of the arbitrary tax banding jumps in favour of something much more progressive.

Another idea which works for me is that once an individual has a net worth of say £50 million, the government gives them a gong saying "you've won!" and any additional wealth that is generated is used for the benefit of the country. Maybe you could consult about what the wealth should go toward " we need a new hospital Lord Ashcroft - how does the Lord Ashcroft Memorial Hospital sound to you?". IIRC it's what the wealthy used to do - build schools, hospitals etc to show how generous they were.

Personally, never thought wealth taxes a good idea, although, they would be very unlikely to affect me personally.

IMHO all taxes (including NI) should be applied using a linear rising scale, to remove “steps”. Similarly, benefits should be withdrawn on a linear scale, as income increases. All “gateway” benefits should be scrapped.

 

[albion]

One really hopes this is a master plan for the coming autumn budget.
The middle to high earners 'should' be hit, the highest already living in places like Monaco.

Just maybe Starmer not as wooden man we think of. Without massive budget adjustments national debt will eventually crash sterling, resulting in poverty for 90% of us.

 

[Beebo]

One really hopes this is a master plan for the coming autumn budget.
The middle to high earners 'should' be hit, the highest already living in places like Monaco.

Just maybe Starmer not as wooden man we think of. Without massive budget adjustments national debt will eventually crash sterling, resulting in poverty for 90% of us.

He can’t increase income tax, so his options are very limited. Capital gains seems to be the only serious route

 

[BoldonLad]

He can’t increase income tax, so his options are very limited. Capital gains seems to be the only serious route

How about :

combining Income Tax and NI? That would not actually break the “no increase promise”, but, would increase the number paying, by including pensioners.

Capital gains tax on main residence.

Scrap tax relief on ISAs

Bring Capital gains tax rates into line with income tax rates

 

[icowden]

combining Income Tax and NI? That would not actually break the “no increase promise”, but, would increase the number paying, by including pensioners.

That'll go down well with the pensioners.

Capital gains tax on main residence.

Steady on there old chap.

Scrap tax relief on ISAs

Wouldn't that just be scrapping ISAs?

I still think that rather than fiddling with income tax, the best route would be a transaction tax so that multinationals pay their fair share of taxes, close loopholes that allow the super rich to move their cash to the Cayman islands etc. The big money is in getting a fair amount of tax from the people and companies with big money.