Burnham

[BoldonLad]

Why is people being better educated stupid ?

I guess from a employment point of view it could be seen that way but surely a better educated populace is a reward in itself?

It is not stupid, but, attending University full-time(?) is not the only route to being better educated, is it? It certainly was not in my life.

 

[BoldonLad]

Luckily they aren't. It isn't true debt.

1) You never have to give it back
2) You only have to make payments when you are working and earning a certain amount.

It's a secondary income tax until you have a high wage can can afford to cut your own taxes.

I agree it is a form of supplementary Income Tax, but, not sure about "high wage", my grand-daughter (age 32, and a teacher in a Comprehensive School) has been repaying her student debt/suplementary income tax for some years now.

 

[Dorset Boy]

Luckily they aren't. It isn't true debt.

1) You never have to give it back
2) You only have to make payments when you are working and earning a certain amount.

It's a secondary income tax until you have a high wage can can afford to cut your own taxes.

It's now repayable when earning £25,000 pa and above. That's less than the minimum wage for a 38 hour week.

 

[Psamathe]

Re: University Education
I think a lot depends on the individual. I did a course that many would regard a pointless, certainly with regards career prospects. Yet for me it has been a core element as to who I am. After I chucked in my career I have taken a couple of very specialist jobs related to my degree but out of interest and belief rather than remuneration.

I feel it all fell apart when politicians started pushing for large numbers to do degree courses and charging fees.

Since retiring I've done some degree courses and standards are unbelievably low, no challenge, nothing to stretch your abilities, just go through the motions. I even looked at doing my original degree subject again (or closest subject given they've generalised everything) but looking at the syllabus and all really basic stuff.

 

[briantrumpet]

It's now repayable when earning £25,000 pa and above. That's less than the minimum wage for a 38 hour week.

And if I've read it right, the interest rates are at or above commercial rates, and it's quite possible for the debt to accumulate rapidly because of that.

 

[Psamathe]

And if I've read it right, the interest rates are at or above commercial rates, and it's quite possible for the debt to accumulate rapidly because of that.

I thought there were several different schemes for the loans depending on when you did the course/took the loan and some are a lot worse than others.

 

[briantrumpet]

I thought there were several different schemes for the loans depending on when you did the course/took the loan and some are a lot worse than others.

Really not sure, but IIRC it's been raised in Parliament recently, the terms having got much worse, with accumulating debt.

 

[Dorset Boy]

I thought there were several different schemes for the loans depending on when you did the course/took the loan and some are a lot worse than others.

Current graduates go on Student Loan 5 (Auf 2023 onwards) which is what I quoted above.
It's by far the worst loan for the graduate as far as when you start repaying.
Loan 2 appears the best (Sept 2012 to July 2023) in that regard.

Interest rates are linked to RPI predominantly.

 

[Dorset Boy]

Really not sure, but IIRC it's been raised in Parliament recently, the terms having got much worse, with accumulating debt.

Yes, problem is at lower earnings the repayments don't cover the interest, so the debt accumulates.

 

[briantrumpet]

Yes, problem is at lower earnings the repayments don't cover the interest, so the debt accumulates.

Thanks. I've not really been paying close attention, as it doesn't affect me... as long as I get enough players for my Graduation brass ensemble, I'm happy, and I don't ask how much debt they've accumulated.

 

[Pblakeney]

Yes, problem is at lower earnings the repayments don't cover the interest, so the debt accumulates.

This has been reported, but generally on the QT and certainly not had the coverage that it deserves.

 

[FishFright]

You'll have to convince me that people getting into tens of thousands of Pounds in debt and it not resulting in a worthwhile career is a good thing. I'd even question if going to uni necessarily means more intelligent.
If it results in a worthwhile career, or you can afford it, then crack on but it is not for everyone.

Its a question for the individual but as was saying that surely an educated populace is a good thing.
Also the right to continuing education is a relatively recently thing.

Sadly many questions about improving society are greeted with " but how much will it cost me? "

 

[briantrumpet]

Its a question for the individual but as was saying that surely an educated populace is a good thing.

The problem arises from thinking that 'education' can only mean a university-type academic education. That's analogous to Gove thinking that his education was perfect ("See how I've turned out!"), so he imposed the system of teaching that he experienced (especially the focus on learning piles of facts and arcane terminology, from history to grammar) on current school pupils.

Of course, when most MPs are graduates, they are going to think that a university degree is what made them who they are, but it rather suggests a narrowness of thinking about what education *could be*. That's not saying that anything counts as 'education', but from what I've seen at Exeter College, a much wider definition of 'education' is possible, and if young people perceive a university degree as not being the only way into a fulfilling career based on learnt knowledge and skills, then it would be a positive thing, I think.

 

[Pblakeney]

Its a question for the individual but as was saying that surely an educated populace is a good thing.
Also the right to continuing education is a relatively recently thing.

Sadly many questions about improving society are greeted with " but how much will it cost me? "

Of course an educated populace is a good thing but teaching a person to research for themself could, and should, be done by high school.
Continuing education is not a right. It comes at a cost. A cost which some can't actually afford. Which addresses your third sentence.

 

[icowden]

It's now repayable when earning £25,000 pa and above. That's less than the minimum wage for a 38 hour week.

Yes, but you would be paying £2 per month on a plan 5 loan.