Discrimination?

[monkers]

Hanan Issa is the National Poet of Wales. She is half Welsh and half Iraqi. She learnt Welsh at school, but writes her poetry in English.

Not sure how relevant this is to the thread, but I learnt that today thanks to the thread and found it interesting.


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E3mvpTqB90Y?feature=share

 

[secretsqirrel]

I have heard of some of the Polish folks living in West Wales have learned to speak Welsh and their children are able to speak Welsh since attending school.

Also some Ukrainian refugees.

All I can say is google ‘Welsh Not’ if you want a bit of history.

 

[Mr Celine]

Gaelic is still spoken in the home by local people but there are lot in incomers, particularly on the south of the island who don't even try to pick up a few words.

The biggest killer though was the arrival of TV.

View: https://youtu.be/1N-wQtQotE8?si=Flve5Siqdybn8hFL

 

[Pblakeney]

It's an interesting question. I think the death of 'indigenous languages' is something to mourn, as the world becomes a more monochrome place without the wealth of so many varied languages and their cultural/historical baggage, but when a language loses its usefulness to a population, it will die. People are trying to revive Cornish (another Celtic language), but trying to bring back a language when the last native speaker has died seems a total waste of time (sorry, @First Aspect - I know you're itching to learn it).

I ought to get this book, as he's always enlightening.

https://www.amazon.com/Language-Death-Canto-Classics-Crystal-dp-1107431816/dp/1107431816

My fear is the the Americanisation of all culture. Not just language, feel me?

 

[secretsqirrel]

Meanwhile in Argentina…..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ge3j98zd7o

The locals are planting daffs.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Gaelic in Scotland is at a very low level nowadays, spoken by only around 1% of the population. There are many contributing factors but it has been systematically suppressed over the centuries by hostile governments who sought to make English the primary language instead. For example, in the 19th century legislation was passed enforcing Scottish schools to teach all pupils in English, whether they knew the language or not. Children were even punished for speaking Gaelic in the playground.

Gaelic use is still frequently mocked nowadays, as is Scots, including by people who claim to be proud Scots.

Welsh is in a much healthier position but still in need of protection to maintain it.

 

[Mad Doug Biker]

Gaelic in Scotland is at a very low level nowadays, spoken by only around 1% of the population. There are many contributing factors but it has been systematically suppressed over the centuries by hostile governments who sought to make English the primary language instead. For example, in the 19th century legislation was passed enforcing Scottish schools to teach all pupils in English, whether they knew the language or not. Children were even punished for speaking Gaelic in the playground.

Gaelic use is still frequently mocked nowadays, as is Scots, including by people who claim to be proud Scots.

Welsh is in a much healthier position but still in need of protection to maintain it.

Yes it's all rather sad really.

 

[Rusty Nails]

In answer to the question implied in the thread title, of course it is discrimination, but all of government is necessarily about discrimination. In this case the discrimination is designed to protect the language in a part of the country where it is still important to many of the population so in my view is perfectly fair.
I am Welsh but sadly, coming from a mongrel family, nationality wise, and living in SE Wales, have only a basic knowledge of the language but welcome the moves to protect it for those who do speak it as part of their daily lives.

 

[First Aspect]

Yes it's all rather sad really.

As I say, in nearly two decades up there I have never come across this particular narrative. It is typical of the Scottish outlook to see hostility when looking at the cause of an event. Must there be always be some "other" at fault for a perceived ill suffered by Scotland? Rather, in this case for example, looking at populations in the Highlands and islands versus populations in the south of the country as the cause of an inevitable domination if the language spoken in the south.

A lack of overt support to prop up a language is not the same as a hostility towards it. I remain convinced that any such hostility exists, at least in the present day.

 

[briantrumpet]

As I say, in nearly two decades up there I have never come across this particular narrative. It is typical of the Scottish outlook to see hostility when looking at the cause of an event. Must there be always be some "other" at fault for a perceived ill suffered by Scotland? Rather, in this case for example, looking at populations in the Highlands and islands versus populations in the south of the country as the cause of an inevitable domination if the language spoken in the south.

A lack of overt support to prop up a language is not the same as a hostility towards it. I remain convinced that any such hostility exists, at least in the present day.

'Unconvinced', rather?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

It is typical of the Scottish outlook

What is “the Scottish outlook”?

Must there be always be some "other" at fault for a perceived ill suffered by Scotland?

The suppression and subsequent decline of Gaelic language in Scotland is a fact, not a perception.

A lack of overt support to prop up a language is not the same as a hostility towards it. I remain convinced that any such hostility exists, at least in the present day.

The drop in the number of Gaelic speakers is largely the result of deliberate hostility from successive governments. Gaelic was purposely marginalised for years.

Your lack of awareness of any hostile narrative is unimportant.

 

[First Aspect]

What is “the Scottish outlook”?



The suppression and subsequent decline of Gaelic language in Scotland is a fact, not a perception.



The drop in the number of Gaelic speakers is largely the result of deliberate hostility from successive governments. Gaelic was purposely marginalised for years.

Your lack of awareness of any hostile narrative is unimportant.

Hang on you aren't talking about the clearances 2-300 years ago are you? Because the discussion was a bit more contemporary.

Since 2005 I noticed Gaelic road signs, radio channels and a TV channel. Lots of Gaelic place names - not least moat of the Munro's. But otherwise ambivalence, much like french in most of Canada.

What sort of hostility is there? I visited lots of places but lived in south of the central belt on the east of Scotland. Is there more hostility in Glasgow? (I mean obviously there is in general about absolutely anything, even though it's friendly and all that).

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Hang on you aren't talking about the clearances 2-300 years ago are you? Because the discussion was a bit more contemporary.

Since 2005 I noticed Gaelic road signs, radio channels and a TV channel. Lots of Gaelic place names - not least moat of the Munro's. But otherwise ambivalence, much like french in most of Canada.

What sort of hostility is there? I visited lots of places but lived in south of the central belt on the east of Scotland. Is there more hostility in Glasgow? (I mean obviously there is in general about absolutely anything, even though it's friendly and all that).

The decline of Gaelic isn’t a recent thing. See my post above, #21.

It’s enjoying some protection nowadays only because we achieved devolution in 1999, bringing the subsequent passing of the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005.

I’d be grateful if you could address the points I raised in post #27.

 

[First Aspect]

What is “the Scottish outlook”?



The suppression and subsequent decline of Gaelic language in Scotland is a fact, not a perception.



The drop in the number of Gaelic speakers is largely the result of deliberate hostility from successive governments. Gaelic was purposely marginalised for years.

Your lack of awareness of any hostile narrative is unimportant.

Hang on you aren't talking about the clearances 2-300 years ago are you? Because the discussion was a bit more contemporary.

Since 2005 I noticed Gaelic road signs, radio channels and a TV channel. Lots of Gaelic place names - not least moat of the Munro's. But otherwise ambivalence, much like french in most of Canada.

What sort of hostility is there? I visited lots of places but lived in south of the central belt on the east of Scotland. Is there more hostility in Glasgow? (I mean obviously there is in general about absolutely anything, even though it's friendly and all that

The decline of Gaelic isn’t a recent thing. See my post above, #21.

It’s enjoying some protection nowadays only because we achieved devolution in 1999, bringing the subsequent passing of the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005.

I’d be grateful if you could address the points I raised in post #27.

Jesus Christ.

No, 300 years ago when scots evicted other Scots is not a recent thing. Nor is it a current thing. Nor is it related to the joyous and bountiful thing that is devolution, which had lead to great wealth. Or would have done if it wasn't for the Scots.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Hang on you aren't talking about the clearances 2-300 years ago are you? Because the discussion was a bit more contemporary.

Since 2005 I noticed Gaelic road signs, radio channels and a TV channel. Lots of Gaelic place names - not least moat of the Munro's. But otherwise ambivalence, much like french in most of Canada.

What sort of hostility is there? I visited lots of places but lived in south of the central belt on the east of Scotland. Is there more hostility in Glasgow? (I mean obviously there is in general about absolutely anything, even though it's friendly and all that


Jesus Christ.

No, 300 years ago when scots evicted other Scots is not a recent thing. Nor is it a current thing. Nor is it related to the joyous and bountiful thing that is devolution, which had lead to great wealth. Or would have done if it wasn't for the Scots.

The suppression of Gaelic goes back further than 300 years.

Can you tell me what this “Scottish outlook” is, because from your responses I’m smelling a heap of gaslighting bullshit.