Does anybody here take the Greens seriously?

[icowden]

Is the decriminalisation of possession intended to STOP drug use, or, simply to make such use safer (and, possibly cheaper).

It is intended to make drug use cheaper and also to reduce the peripheral antisocial problems connected with drug use. Instead of stealing from shops, people, cars etc to get money for drugs, the addict is given a legal method to obtain the drugs they are addicted to. At the same time, the system attempts to help them become drug free and obtain that which they need to support themselves - e.g. employment.

Timpson is famous for rehabilitating ex-prisoners by giving them the opportunity to have a job. By having a job, they have income, can pay for somewhere to live and gain some self-respect. They are often people from troubled upbringings who need guidance and support, not incarceration in a place that teaches them how to commit crime better.

 

[BoldonLad]

It is intended to make drug use cheaper and also to reduce the peripheral antisocial problems connected with drug use. Instead of stealing from shops, people, cars etc to get money for drugs, the addict is given a legal method to obtain the drugs they are addicted to. At the same time, the system attempts to help them become drug free and obtain that which they need to support themselves - e.g. employment.

Timpson is famous for rehabilitating ex-prisoners by giving them the opportunity to have a job. By having a job, they have income, can pay for somewhere to live and gain some self-respect. They are often people from troubled upbringings who need guidance and support, not incarceration in a place that teaches them how to commit crime better.

That does not really answer my question.

At present, we have two legal drugs readily available (alcohol and tobacco).

Many people indulge in one or both, without becoming addicts, or, stealing from shops, cars etc to fund their indulgence.

There are, some people who become addicted to the above legal drugs, although, we tend not to use that nasty word "addict", we call them Alcoholics or Heavy Smokers or some such term.

Is it possible that many/all of the current crop of illegal drugs (and no doubt, new ones to come) could be similarly managed?, or, are we talking in terms of eradicating or at least minimising/marginalising the use of ALL drugs (including Alcohol and tobacco)?

 

[icowden]

Many people indulge in one or both, without becoming addicts, or, stealing from shops, cars etc to fund their indulgence.

And some people do not.

Is it possible that many/all of the current crop of illegal drugs (and no doubt, new ones to come) could be similarly managed?,

That's the intention of the Portugal model.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Is the decriminalisation of possession intended to STOP drug use, or, simply to make such use safer (and, possibly cheaper).

It's meant to reduce the massive cash/people time booking people for possession.

My son, an occasional cannabis smoker, spent a night in the cells, was subject to a blood test and then Cautioned after being caught with a wacky baccy roll up.

 

[BoldonLad]

It's meant to reduce the massive cash/people time booking people for possession.

My son, an occasional cannabis smoker, spent a night in the cells, was subject to a blood test and then Cautioned after being caught with a wacky baccy roll up.

so, no "Social Welfare" intention (although that MAY be a by-product.

 

[All uphill]

That does not really answer my question.

At present, we have two legal drugs readily available (alcohol and tobacco).

Many people indulge in one or both, without becoming addicts, or, stealing from shops, cars etc to fund their indulgence.

There are, some people who become addicted to the above legal drugs, although, we tend not to use that nasty word "addict", we call them Alcoholics or Heavy Smokers or some such term.

Is it possible that many/all of the current crop of illegal drugs (and no doubt, new ones to come) could be similarly managed?, or, are we talking in terms of eradicating or at least minimising/marginalising the use of ALL drugs (including Alcohol and tobacco)?

I'd be delighted if many more people with drug dependencies could contribute to, and benefit from employment and/or volunteering.

If those people could reduce their dependencies, improve their mental health and housing while earning and paying tax that would be wonderful for them and us.

 

[laurentian]

As I understand it (from some very "scratching the surface" reading on various visits to Portugal), possession in Portugal has been decriminalized but is not without consequences. If caught in possession, a person is not simply "let off" rather, they are obliged to take part in some kind of rehabilitation course or face a fine (an analogy might be a driver awareness course if you're caught by a speed camera)

I believe the results in Portugal were initially very significant with a 75% reduction of dependents after the first few years but that cuts to funding of the programme have seen an increase in users and dependency again (which suggests the fully funded programme would be worth pursuing)

It was certainly not a case of decriminalisation of possession being the only thing that happened.

 

[BoldonLad]

I'd be delighted if many more people with drug dependencies could contribute to, and benefit from employment and/or volunteering.

If those people could reduce their dependencies, improve their mental health and housing while earning and paying tax that would be wonderful for them and us.

Me too. Probably too late for my son (he is 50+), but, it would be good for the addicts and good for Society in general (IMHO)

 

[monkers]

For anyone thinking they'd like to know the man Zack Polanski a bit more up close and personal. He is very good on his feet.


View: https://youtu.be/cAJ26FDxW2k

 

[monkers]

Hey look guys ...

This is apparently extrapolated from Yougov data.

 

[Dorset Boy]

Hey look guys ...

View attachment 13239


This is apparently extrapolated from Yougov data.

Utterly irrelevant as is disenfranchises probably 70+% of the electorate.

 

[Stevo 666]

I'm thinking a chunk of class A including Cocaine, MDMA, Mushrooms and Morphine are over classified.

Possibly. As mentioned I'm thinking of the more harmful stuff as mentioned.

 

[Stevo 666]

The rationale is thus...

Yes, the drug dealers will continue to supply drugs - it's what they do. However the state will also sell drugs, but a) more cheaply than the dealers and b) with a guarantee that you aren't going to die because it's been cut with rat poison or scrapings from the floor etc.

The point is that the drug takers are victims - you supply help to get them off drugs and rehabilitate them. You continue to arrest and imprison dealers.

The idea is to put the dealers out of business and into prison, not the victims. Timpson reckons that around 2/3rds of the current prison population should not be in jail, and instead should be on rehabilitation and support programmes. That would be a massive saving for the taxpayer.

I get the aims, but who will the state buy the drugs from? Colombian or Mexican cartels for example? And how cheaply? Cheaply enough that our taxes have to fund hard drug supply?

Many drug takers are victims as you say. Other choose to take them recreationally. Decriminalisation will increase the numbers using these drugs and increase the impacts of having more addicts.

 

[AndyRM]

More people die from state taxed alcohol and tobacco related issues every year than any other drug.

But aye, let's carry on clutching our pearls about addicts.

 

[CXRAndy]

More people die from state taxed alcohol and tobacco related issues every year than any other drug.

But aye, let's carry on clutching our pearls about addicts.

True,

this is because these drugs dont kill the user quickly, so it's a good revenue stream for several decades.