Does anybody here take the Greens seriously?

[AuroraSaab]

Given this policy has been in place for 25 years, have any other countries copied it?
If not, why not if it is seemingly so successful?

Oregon did and have voted to partially overturn it. The decriminalization coincided with fetanyl becoming increasingly available and led to more deaths and more public drug taking. If you don't back up decriminalisation with massive investment in healthcare and rehab you don't actually reduce the number of drug users just the number of arrests.

 

[First Aspect]

Oregon did and have voted to partially overturn it. The decriminalization coincided with fetanyl becoming increasingly available and led to more deaths and more public drug taking. If you don't back up decriminalisation with massive investment in healthcare and rehab you don't actually reduce the number of drug users just the number of arrests.

Okay, so you are.going to need to show working. Your post asserts both that fentanyl became more available, and that decriminalisation lead to more use. I think you are mixing up cause and effect.

Also, what was the consequence of more people being prosecuted, after repeal? Did this result in less drug use?

Health investment and the US is an oxymoron. But I think the general idea is you stop eating time with the myriad of end uers and use the police resource to have more effect further up the chain.

 

[All uphill]

For a cash-strapped country we are remarkably keen to lock up more people at £50k per year per person, and remarkably reluctant to try a harm reduction route.

 

[CXRAndy]

But I think the general idea is you stop eating time with the myriad of end uers and use the police resource to have more effect further up the chain.

That's why bombing the drug boats is quick and effective

 

[icowden]

For a cash-strapped country we are remarkably keen to lock up more people at £50k per year per person, and remarkably reluctant to try a harm reduction route.

Labour do seem to be going in the right direction by appointing Timpson as Prisons Minister and moving some focus to rehabilitation so that people don't go back to prison.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Okay, so you are.going to need to show working. Your post asserts both that fentanyl became more available, and that decriminalisation lead to more use. I think you are mixing up cause and effect.

Fetanyl was more freely available leading to more public drug taking of it, which makes it a very public and anti social problem. The easier supply caused the death increase.

Also, what was the consequence of more people being prosecuted, after repeal? Did this result in less drug use?

It's been about a year so not sure there is enough data yet. The law now allows for those arrested to go into voluntary programmes rather than jail but probably too early to judge the effects.

 

[Stevo 666]

Having lived in a country that was one of the first to condome but not decriminalized/legalize(important difference) class A drugs like Weed i can tell you nope ''decriminalisation'' does not have that effect, i think with hard drugs it might be an different story, and in addition these are far more damaging, so i think advocating to legalize that is wrong. Both soft drugs like weed are no more dangerous then Alcohol.

Hard drugs are what I chiefly had in mind here.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Hard drugs are what I chiefly had in mind here.

What do you categorise as hard?

 

[Stevo 666]

Don't look at individual steps as the only step. Decriminalising would be one of many interventions. And in my experience legality does not encourage or discourage people from trying as chances of getting caught by Police is minimal.


Nobody has proposed state supplying such recreational drugs. Straw Man.

So drug dealers continue to supply the stuff. I seem to recall once of the objections upthread was unsavoury individuals profiting from the activity (a point I don't disagree with), but the implication as I read it was that the state makes the profit instead.

 

[First Aspect]

Fetanyl was more freely available leading to more public drug taking of it, which makes it a very public and anti social problem. The easier supply caused the death increase.


It's been about a year so not sure there is enough data yet. The law now allows for those arrested to go into voluntary programmes rather than jail but probably too early to judge the effects.

Fair enough, although the emphasis on public drug use smacks slightly (not on your part) of an out of sight out of mind attitude.

Fwiw I'd have thought the biggest antisocial behaviour issue was the crime associated with funding drug addiction.

 

[Stevo 666]

Oh come on Stephen. You haven't argued any point since you joined, unless you want to count your Laffer contribution. I seem to remember that wasn't received with much respect.

You must be too thick to spot an argument then Bobz. Try reading lessons?

 

[CXRAndy]

What do you categorise as hard?

A drug which is likely to kill you after taking one dose, or make you so addicted after a tiny dose, like fentanyl

 

[Stevo 666]

What do you categorise as hard?

I'm no expert but those categorised as Class A could be a decent starting point. What's your point?

 

[CXRAndy]

Common class A

Cocaine (including crack cocaine)
Heroin (diamorphine)
Ecstasy (MDMA)
LSD (lysergide)
Magic mushrooms (containing psilocybin/psilocin)
Methadone
Methamphetamine (crystal meth)
Fentanyl and many fentanyl derivatives
Morphine
Oxycodone

 

[Psamathe]

Claiming no expertise, my understanding is that in the US a significant pathweay for users starting on Fetanyl is where they take other drugs that have been spiked with Fetanyl.

Maybe biased by moderately recent personal experience but I see an important challenge to reducing harm is making testing available to users ie they can go have what they've purchase tested. Making such options available without risk of getting caught and ending up in court could be part of the solution to stopping users moving on to increasingly destructive addictions.