Does anybody here take the Greens seriously?

[monkers]

In my opinion, this is the fallacy of trying to "protect" people, if you make the drug(s) of choice too expensive, people will turn to a less expensive option. A case of unintended consequences. I am not and never was a smoker (other than a brief youthful bravado), but, it appears to me that the rise of vaping is largely because of the increased cost of tobacco.

The Suffolk Smoking Solution.

 

[icowden]

it appears to me that the rise of vaping is largely because of the increased cost of tobacco.

Nah. It's because of this:-

• Strawberry Apple
• Candyfloss
• Berry mix
• Cola
• Mixed Berries
• Blackcurrant
• Bubble billow
• Blueberry

Vape manufacturers have done for nicotine products what alcohol producers did for cocktails with alcopops.
You do pretty boxes and make it appealing to the kids.

Vaping is 4.6% for 11 to 15 year olds, 15% for 16-17, 18% for 18 year olds. The kids aren't bothering with horrible tasting cigarettes when they have nice sweetie flavour nicotine to use.

 

[AuroraSaab]

People can shoot up (or whatever) in safe locations and be encouraged to quit.

I think trials of this have brought other problems. Canada are walking it back a bit.

https://www.reuters.com/world/ameri...ams-keep-users-safe-face-backlash-2024-07-24/

It worked well in Portugal, but it does have an expense.

The stats I looked at say Portugal overdoses are at the highest level for several years. Could be other factors involved obviously, not necessarily just decriminalisation.

 

[First Aspect]

In my opinion, this is the fallacy of trying to "protect" people, if you make the drug(s) of choice too expensive, people will turn to a less expensive option. A case of unintended consequences. I am not and never was a smoker (other than a brief youthful bravado), but, it appears to me that the rise of vaping is largely because of the increased cost of tobacco.

So, using ketamine as an example, currently legal but only under very limited circumstances.

There is a growing problem of chronic health problems arising out of ketamine addiction. This seems to relate to ketamine itself, not any excipients in illegal supplies of it.

I am not aware of many or any prosecutions of users of this drug, so decriminalising it's use is not relevant in this instance. Tends to be the case with a lot of prescription drugs.

Green party appear to be proposing to address this problem of increased ketamine use by legalising it.

What does this achieve?

 

[First Aspect]

I think trials of this have brought other problems. Canada are walking it back a bit.

https://www.reuters.com/world/ameri...ams-keep-users-safe-face-backlash-2024-07-24/



The stats I looked at say Portugal overdoses are at the highest level for several years. Could be other factors involved obviously, not necessarily just decriminalisation.

The backlash in Canada is a nimby problem not science based. The general idea of safe drug rooms is sound, but is up against conventional “drugs are bad, m'kay" thinking.

 

[BoldonLad]

Nah. It's because of this:-

• Strawberry Apple
• Candyfloss
• Berry mix
• Cola
• Mixed Berries
• Blackcurrant
• Bubble billow
• Blueberry

Vape manufacturers have done for nicotine products what alcohol producers did for cocktails with alcopops.
You do pretty boxes and make it appealing to the kids.

Vaping is 4.6% for 11 to 15 year olds, 15% for 16-17, 18% for 18 year olds. The kids aren't bothering with horrible tasting cigarettes when they have nice sweetie flavour nicotine to use.

and, the remaining 62.4% are used by whom?

 

[icowden]

and, the remaining 62.4% are used by whom?

I think it's 18% of 18 year olds etc. the point is that smoking is now very rare in people under 25, pretty rare in people under 35. Whereas vaping is really taking off. There may be a price element but the shiny colours and fab flavours are great marketing to get new addicts.

 

[BoldonLad]

I think it's 18% of 18 year olds etc. the point is that smoking is now very rare in people under 25, pretty rare in people under 35. Whereas vaping is really taking off. There may be a price element but the shiny colours and fab flavours are great marketing to get new addicts.

Well, if that is what the %ges mean,

However, Vaping would never have been a "thing" for any age group, except for the drive to discourage smoking (not making a judgement on the if that was correct or not), and, the section in bold simply supports my point that discouraging smoking has simply lead to the rise of another drug or mechanism (as a none smoker, I don't understand the attraction of tobacco or vapes, but, does not mean that everyone shares that view) to replace the original drug of choice (ie tobacco, in this instance).

 

[All uphill]

Well, if that is what the %ges mean,

However, Vaping would never have been a "thing" for any age group, except for the drive to discourage smoking (not making a judgement on the if that was correct or not), and, the section in bold simply supports my point that discouraging smoking has simply lead to the rise of another drug or mechanism (as a none smoker, I don't understand the attraction of tobacco or vapes, but, does not mean that everyone shares that view) to replace the original drug of choice (ie tobacco, in this instance).

If fewer people are choosing a proven harmful drug, and instead using a much less harmful one that's an improvement, in it?

 

[BoldonLad]

If fewer people are choosing a proven harmful drug, and instead using a much less harmful one that's an improvement, in it?

Yes, If it actually IS less harmful.

How long did it take for the dangers of tobacco use to be generally understood?

I understand that in more recent times, vested interests may have made every effort to muddy the waters, but, wouldn't the purveyors of the replacement drug do exactly the same, to protect their income stream, if the replacement drug turned out to be more harmful than original thought?

 

[AndyRM]

Yes, If it actually IS less harmful.

How long did it take for the dangers of tobacco use to be generally understood?

I understand that in more recent times, vested interests may have made every effort to muddy the waters, but, wouldn't the purveyors of the replacement drug do exactly the same, to protect their income stream, if the replacement drug turned out to be more harmful than original thought?

This.

F*ck knows what's in the cheap liquids you can buy online, or anywhere for that matter.

Vaping started as a pretty well meaning exercise to help stop people smoking and it's gone wrong.

Plus, it's bloody annoying asking someone for a light if you (as a smoker, which I am) happen to have forgotten yours, or it's broken.

 

[Pblakeney]

I console myself by laughing at the hard men vaping.
I mean, how can you take a hard man seriously when he smells of strawberries and cream?
Doesn’t help anything but their lives, their choices, even if stupid.

 

[AndyRM]

I console myself by laughing at the hard men vaping.
I mean, how can you take a hard man seriously when he smells of strawberries and cream?
Doesn’t help anything but their lives, their choices, even if stupid.

Plus you're always gonna look like you're sucking off Optimus Prime (other Transformers are available).

 

[BoldonLad]

I console myself by laughing at the hard men vaping.
I mean, how can you take a hard man seriously when he smells of strawberries and cream?
Doesn’t help anything but their lives, their choices, even if stupid.

You may have just highlighted a gap in the market, quickly, someone, think up a “hard man” fragrance and make a suitable vape 😂

 

[AndyRM]

You may have just highlighted a gap in the market, quickly, someone, think up a “hard man” fragrance and make a suitable vape 😂

Diesel X Sweat by Jason Statham.

The new vape for the manliest of men.