Does anybody here take the Greens seriously?

[AuroraSaab]

Is there any topic that you don't view through the prism of women's rights?

Would you ask a black person to consider not thinking about the effects of political policies on black people first? Maybe think about the white people first for a change?

Legalising brothels and decriminalisong prostitution is analogous to their policy on drugs - it's going to happen anyway, so why not facilitate it happening safely.

The Green's policy doesn't facilitate it happening safely. As in Germany it will create a 2 tier system of legalised brothels and a underclass of other even more exploited women. Most prostitutes in Germany are Eastern European or African. Regulating prostitution has only really benefitted pimps and sex buyers.

Ghb isn't just used to facilitate the rape of women btw.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/21/ukcrime.gender

None of these policies punch up.

 

[briantrumpet]

Bit much together, but one or the other with a solid block colour would be absolutely fine.

If nothing else it's more interesting than a suit with a party coloured tie.

Yep, no fan of suits & ties either.

 

[Rusty Nails]

So left wing populism punches up at the privileged? Right wing populism punches down?

That's not really true with Zac Polanski's Green Party policies though.

Decriminalising prostitution and legalising brothels will only further exploit vulnerable women and lead to more trafficking of women and girls. It's awful for those who live in red light areas too, which are usually poor areas.
It benefits men who buy sex, and enriches pimps and traffickers; hardly punching up.

Allowing ghb, the drink spiking/date rape drug, to be bought for personal use is hardly punching up either. It'll be used to subjugate others. You can't control how it's used once it's bought. The chances of it just being used recreationally by the buyer alone is slim.

His plan to give trans identifying men access to all women's spaces, services, and facilities, is the opposite of punching up. It's punching down on women and girls.

Doing away with all prison sentences under 2 years and 'restorative justice' is going to leave some violent offenders with not much more than a criminal record as punishment. It punches down on victims.

Left wing populism mostly benefits the middle classes. That's why it's popular.
They get to pretend to be liberal and progressive but don't have to shoulder the negative results.

I'm not sure you are addressing the same points as Jefferson Cowie. It's about targeting and demonising groups as a tactic of a populist approach to politics.

 

[First Aspect]

Would you ask a black person to consider not thinking about the effects of political policies on black people first? Maybe think about the white people first for a change?


The Green's policy doesn't facilitate it happening safely. As in Germany it will create a 2 tier system of legalised brothels and a underclass of other even more exploited women. Most prostitutes in Germany are Eastern European or African. Regulating prostitution has only really benefitted pimps and sex buyers.

Ghb isn't just used to facilitate the rape of women btw.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/dec/21/ukcrime.gender

None of these policies punch up.

I don't know the details of their actual policy, but I think you've happened upon something that isn't actually populist.

And in answer to your first question, no I wouldn't expect someone who is black to consider everything from that perspective. Tax, for example.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I think we're back to the scare stories where the govt replaces your local crack den.
I think you'll find the proposal is to legalise some drugs, and decrimalise others - supply being regulated/controlled.
But what the hell, let's create a scare story under the pretense of discussing populism. Somewhat ironic.

 

[icowden]

The Green's policy doesn't facilitate it happening safely. As in Germany it will create a 2 tier system of legalised brothels and a underclass of other even more exploited women. Most prostitutes in Germany are Eastern European or African. Regulating prostitution has only really benefitted pimps and sex buyers.

It's based on considerable research from Amnesty. Bloody researchers eh. What would they know?:

Amnesty International supports the full decriminalization of consensual sex work to protect the human rights of sex workers, arguing that criminalization increases their vulnerability to violence, abuse, and exploitation. The policy calls for removing criminal penalties for sex workers, clients, and third parties, focusing instead on combating human trafficking and forced labour.

Key aspects of Amnesty's position include:

• Safety and Rights: Decriminalization enables sex workers to work together for safety, report abuse to police without fear of prosecution, and access better healthcare.
• Evidence-Based: The policy follows extensive research and consultation with sex workers, HIV agencies, and anti-trafficking groups, arguing that criminalization makes sex workers less safe.

• Distinction from Trafficking: Amnesty International distinguishes between consensual sex work and forced labour/trafficking, maintaining that trafficking remains an "abhorrent human rights abuse" requiring criminal penalties.
• Global Support/Opposition: While supported by organizations like the World Health Organization, the policy faced criticism from groups concerned it could lead to the deregulation of brothel-owning and pimping.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/105729/html/

 

[UglyWithaSidePart]

Must admit (trying to be non-judgemental) that it's hard sometimes not to be reminded of the thread title, given the choice of clothes and photo.

View attachment 14110

It's a difficult subject to tackle this one. I am all for people expressing their personality through clothing, tattoos, hair styles or whatever. And I would still vote for the person first then their appearance second. But if the Greens want to be in power, they need to recognise that the bloke in the picture looks like a clown, which is fine, if you work in a circus. And I say this as someone who fought quite hard in a corporate environment for men to be able to have more choice over the clothes they wear compared to women.
I'm a green party member by the way, but I have misgivings over several policies including nuclear (deterrent and power).

 

[briantrumpet]

It's a difficult subject to tackle this one. I am all for people expressing their personality through clothing, tattoos, hair styles or whatever. And I would still vote for the person first then their appearance second. But if the Greens want to be in power, they need to recognise that the bloke in the picture looks like a clown, which is fine, if you work in a circus. And I say this as someone who fought quite hard in a corporate environment for men to be able to have more choice over the clothes they wear compared to women.
I'm a green party member by the way, but I have misgivings over several policies including nuclear (deterrent and power).

Yes, that's pretty much my thoughts (hence trying to avoid being judgemental, as obviously clothes are (or can be) an expression of who you are. It caught my eye as I initially thought it was a spoof from the Little Britain type mould.

 

[First Aspect]

Yes, that's pretty much my thoughts (hence trying to avoid being judgemental, as obviously clothes are (or can be) an expression of who you are. It caught my eye as I initially thought it was a spoof from the Little Britain type mould.

I would flip it around. What does it say about someone that their appearance is so cultivated and so much a part of themselves? It would be no different if a candidate presented like Ali G or Dame Edna. Or, frankly, someone in a three piece suit with matching bowtie and cravat.

I don't suppose these things are exclusive of deep thoughts, but it does beg the question.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's based on considerable research from Amnesty. Bloody researchers eh. What would they know?

No need for the snark. Amnesty lost the plot on this quite some time ago. They didn't consult with survivors of the sex trade or of trafficking when they developed their policy in 2015. They are only interested in hearing from the volunteers not the conscripts.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-international-prostitution-decriminalisation

We know how decriminalisation and legalising brothels pans out. There are now 400,000 prostitutes in Germany in an industry worth $15 billion a year.

https://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/

If it's such a good idea other countries wouldn't have begun to reverse their position.

Decriminalisation mostly protects the pimps and sex buyers. It facilitates human trafficking.

Far from ensuring women are safe, healthy, and protected, it ends up with registered brothels and an underclass of others.

Read the Telegraph article. It's clear who the Green's policy would benefit. (If you can't be bothered: it's mainly the guy who owns the 6 floor mega brothel with 1,000 customers a day).

 

[AuroraSaab]

I think you'll find the proposal is to legalise some drugs, and decrimalise others - supply being regulated/controlled.

The Green's policy with ghb is to make it available from pharmacies in small amounts for individual use. After you leave Boots with your white paper bag nothing can be done to prevent it being sold on or used for drink spiking; I therefore think the Green's plan is a terrible idea.

 

[briantrumpet]

I would flip it around. What does it say about someone that their appearance is so cultivated and so much a part of themselves? It would be no different if a candidate presented like Ali G or Dame Edna. Or, frankly, someone in a three piece suit with matching bowtie and cravat.

I don't suppose these things are exclusive of deep thoughts, but it does beg the question.

Dunno. As someone who generally doesn't want to 'make a statement' with my choice of clothing, I'm probably not the best person to make a judgement. The only time I wear a suit is stupid DJ and bow tie for concerts, but thankfully that's trending towards an anonymous all-black.

Probably just as well I didn't ply my trade in 17th-century England, even if one of my forebears could have made my wig for me.

 

[briantrumpet]

Yes, that's pretty much my thoughts (hence trying to avoid being judgemental, as obviously clothes are (or can be) an expression of who you are. It caught my eye as I initially thought it was a spoof from the Little Britain type mould.

)

Dammit, realised I didn't close my parenthesis, so here's the closing one, otherwise I might not have slept well tonight.

 

[First Aspect]

Dunno. As someone who generally doesn't want to 'make a statement' with my choice of clothing, I'm probably not the best person to make a judgement. The only time I wear a suit is stupid DJ and bow tie for concerts, but thankfully that's trending towards an anonymous all-black.

Probably just as well I didn't ply my trade in 17th-century England, even if one of my forebears could have made my wig for me.

View attachment 14119

Perhaps i just don't like peacocks. The only clothing I'm particular about is cycling shoes. Some Sidi special editions aside, I convey myself selectively and verbally. I think I want it implied in my politicians that they understand that how they look is immaterial.

Maybe I'm just judgemental.because that person looks like they come from Totnes.

 

[Ian H]

Aubrey wrote that, in his grandfather's time, men wore codpieces in the form of 'a member erect, stuffed with bombast and stuck with pins'.