Does anybody here take the Greens seriously?

[briantrumpet]

Maybe I'm just judgemental.because that person looks like they come from Totnes.

Ooh, harsh.

That said, when I tried to explain the vibe of my local French town to a Devonian, I said it was like a cross between Totnes and Crediton, and they knew exactly when I meant.

 

[icowden]

They didn't consult with survivors of the sex trade or of trafficking when they developed their policy in 2015. They are only interested in hearing from the volunteers not the conscripts.

Didn't they?
The Green Party did:
https://younggreens.org.uk/2020/10/...inal convictions are,it has already been done.
This is a guest blog from the English Collective of Prostitutes.

The good news is that sex workers themselves have provided the modelling for a safer and fairer system. What they want is total decriminalisation, on the street and in premises, which would see the removal of all criminal laws that are specific to sex workers. This includes no criminalisation of clients, which forces sex workers underground and into more dangerous situations. Sex workers want an end to police brutality, to the corruption and racism they face and prosecution of police who break the law. Sex workers are demanding standard employment rights: the right to organise to improve working conditions, to a pension and to trade union membership. We know what this looks like because it has already been done. In 2003 New Zealand opted to decriminalise along these lines, and 90% of sex workers living there say they now have more employment and safety rights.

Honestly - I wouldn't believe anything you read in the Telegraph. Their journalists certainly wouldn't.

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/i/status/2035742536837243288

 

[AuroraSaab]

This is a guest blog from the English Collective of Prostitutes.

... who represent the volunteers not the conscripts.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

The Green's policy with ghb is to make it available from pharmacies in small amounts for individual use. After you leave Boots with your white paper bag nothing can be done to prevent it being sold on or used for drink spiking; I therefore think the Green's plan is a terrible idea.

Here we go again, just walk into Boots, buy your GHB, and go out raping people.
Rational debate, it isn't.
What about the argument that a controlled supply can be treated to make it obvious that a drink has been spiked? I'm not a chemist so I've no idea how easy that would be to achieve or to counteract.

 

[icowden]

... who represent the volunteers not the conscripts.

I'm pretty sure there isn't a conscription model. If by this you mean the people who choose to be prostitutes rather than those forced into it, I think you are almost certainly wrong. Very few people choose that profession unless forced into it by one route or another. They appear to be trying to combat the traffickers, the coercion, the drugs and violence and make things safer for women.

I thought that was what you wanted as well?

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a conscription model. If by this you mean the people who choose to be prostitutes rather than those forced into it, I think you are almost certainly wrong. Very few people choose that profession unless forced into it by one route or another. They appear to be trying to combat the traffickers, the coercion, the drugs and violence and make things safer for women. I thought that was what you wanted as well?

So you accept women are coerced into prostitution by poverty or other reasons but you support a system that encourages even more prostitution and mostly benefits pimps, traffickers, and sex buyers?

There's no evidence that such a system reduces any of those things. It ends up with mega brothels of supposedly regulated prostituted women and an underclass of thousands of others. You dismissed all this just because it was a Telegraph report.

Does the Guardian suit you better? In 10 years Spain has become the world's 3rd largest capital of prostitution since decriminalisation.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...1/prostitution-tackling-spain-sex-traffickers

If you wish prostitution to continue why aren't you supporting the alternatives like the Nordic model?

 

[AuroraSaab]

What about the argument that a controlled supply can be treated to make it obvious that a drink has been spiked? I'm not a chemist so I've no idea how easy that would be to achieve or to counteract.

Well until we do, and the Green Party haven't included that in their plan as far as I know, let's not make rape date drugs more widely available. In fact, let's not chuck out any more bonkers popularist policies without thinking them through.

 

[First Aspect]

.

Well until we do, and the Green Party haven't included that in their plan as far as I know, let's not make rape date drugs more widely available. In fact, let's not chuck out any more bonkers popularist policies without thinking them through.

There are lots of tracers you could use, but it would be a bit late if it formed part of a rape kit.

I think a dye would do the trick.

 

[CXRAndy]

Why not permit the offence and punish the offenders severely

 

[icowden]

So you accept women are coerced into prostitution by poverty or other reasons but you support a system that encourages even more prostitution and mostly benefits pimps, traffickers, and sex buyers?

You complained that the Greens hadn't thought through their policy. I pointed out that it was based on considerable research by Amnesty. You complained that Amnesty hadn't consulted with Sex Workers - I pointed out that sex workers had been very much involved in the research. you pointed out that you didn't mean "those" sex workers, you meant "other" sex workers. I pointed out that that was nonsense as well, and that the work seemed to be very well researched.

I couldn't give a monkeys about the Spanish Model, the Nordic model or Americas Next Top model - my point is that the Greens have thought out what they want to do, and you are continuing to make out that they are making stuff up as they go along because it doesn't suit you to actually look at something and consider your position.

Whether you like it or not, I don't see any evidence that the Green party have not put considerable thought behind their policies. Of course, feel free to disagree with them, but just saying that they are rubbish because they don't share your viewpoint is not a counter argument.

 

[First Aspect]

Why not permit the offence and punish the offenders severely

Ah, you mean make it both legal and illegal Baldrick?

 

[AuroraSaab]

I couldn't give a monkeys about the Spanish Model, the Nordic model or Americas Next Top model

I know. You're not really interested in the detail of how these things will pan out.

Whether you like it or not, I don't see any evidence that the Green party have not put considerable thought behind their policies. Of course, feel free to disagree with them, but just saying that they are rubbish because they don't share your viewpoint is not a counter argument.

My views on this issue aren't exactly unusual. We know how their policy will work out because we can see the results in Spain and Germany. From my viewpoint they aren't good, other than for pimps, traffickers, and sex buyers. If you are happy with that as an outcome, that's fine. I'm not and it's disingenuous of any party that promotes this, backed by Amnesty or not, to claim it's the best solution.

 

[CXRAndy]

Maybe those supporting greens could offer a family member to try the greens policy and report back with the findings

 

[All uphill]

I know. You're not really interested in the detail of how these things will pan out.



My views on this issue aren't exactly unusual. We know how their policy will work out because we can see the results in Spain and Germany. From my viewpoint they aren't good, other than for pimps, traffickers, and sex buyers. If you are happy with that as an outcome, that's fine. I'm not and it's disingenuous of any party that promotes this, backed by Amnesty or not, to claim it's the best solution.

What would you see as a good way for a government to manage this area of human activity?