Does anybody here take the Greens seriously?

[Ian H]

Rather amusing seeing Labour loyalists criticising Polanski for the fib about voting in the local elections, and the Polanski loyalists defending him by attacking the Labour loyalists. Has very much the vibe of the Corbyn era.

One of the few times I've had vitriolic comments on Bluesky in response to my fairly anodyne political commentary there was when I had the effrontery to suggest that Corbyn wasn't an enthusiastic Remainer: it was like I'd committed blasphemy.

It's well-known that he wasn't, for sound political reasons (the baked-in centre-right governance and lack of direct democratic control). His mistake was a failure of leadership in being publicly equivocal about it and hence undermining Labour's position.

 

[briantrumpet]

It's well-known that he wasn't, for sound political reasons (the baked-in centre-right governance and lack of direct democratic control). His mistake was a failure of leadership in being publicly equivocal about it and hence undermining Labour's position.

I think my comment was about him not being enthusiastic about the EU, and someone told me that he compaigned tirelessly for Remain.

 

[Ian H]

I think my comment was about him not being enthusiastic about the EU, and someone told me that he compaigned tirelessly for Remain.

I think he was 'on balance' in favour. But attempting nuance in politics is always going to fail.
If they think he was enthusiastic about the EU you wouldn't trust them to examine anything dispassionately.

 

[BoldonLad]

I think my comment was about him not being enthusiastic about the EU, and someone told me that he compaigned tirelessly for Remain.

My cynical view ref Corbyn and EU, is, I don’t have a clue what he believed, but, he saw an opportunity if the Tories tore themselves apart over it (which they did).

 

[Pblakeney]

My cynical view ref Corbyn and EU, is, I don’t have a clue what he believed, but, he saw an opportunity if the Tories tore themselves apart over it (which they did).

It was the gift that kept on giving, and still does to this day.

 

[AuroraSaab]

He was pretty much anti EU his whole career, for the same reasons other lefties like Tony Benn were. A tiresome aspect of his public fence sitting was outlets like the Guardian claiming that Corbyn was playing a blinder on Brexit.

 

[briantrumpet]

He was pretty much anti EU his whole career, for the same reasons other lefties like Tony Benn were. A tiresome aspect of his public fence sitting was outlets like the Guardian claiming that Corbyn was playing a blinder on Brexit.

He knew it would prevent him establishing a socialist Utopia centred on the People's Republic of Islington. He was forced by the Labour Conference's motion in favour of EU membership to pretend not to hate its restrictive nature as far as pure socialism goes. He did the absolute bare minimum to keep up the pretence.

 

[Psamathe]

Re: Corbyn and the EU
My recollection is that (one of) his major dislikes of yhe EU was them banning/preventing direct state subsidy of business meaning he couldn't provide ongoing subsidy to businesses that could never be profitable but that his background felt were important.

My biew was that this was daft and just highlighted inadequacy of his thought process. EU didn't block Government from eg providing retraining in areas where such industries closed, etc.

 

[Psamathe]

From a different thread, the Starmer thread (https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/starmers-vision-quest.32/post-178585) but my comment relating to the Green Party so moving it here (sorry if not the best things)

The 'popular radicalism in working class areas' that the Greens have tapped into is based almost entirely on it's pro Palestinian policies imo. I don't see white working class people flocking to the Green Party.

View attachment 15190

Quite a few years ago I was a Green Party member, attended the local group meetings, etc. I left because I had other things taking time in my life rather than any disagreement). I did have disagreements with some Green Policies and back then to join a representative of the local group came to my house for an interview lasting several hours to check me out (as for all people).

The Green Party has changed massively and recently basically when Polanski took over. Very different party from the days of Ms Lucas and then Mr Ramsay/Ms Denyer/Ms Chowns.

In my view these days it has little to do with its roots and is now a vehicle for Mr Polanski to pursue whatever un-considered ideology/thoughts drift into Polanski's head.

They seem more interested in seeking power than in achieving the change the Party used to be about. Now a politically motivated body rather than a group looking to improve society.

 

[Ian H]

...They seem more interested in seeking power than in achieving the change...

Can they achieve the latter without the former?

 

[Psamathe]

Can they achieve the latter without the former?

I believe they can. Or maybe power does not always relate to large numbers of people elected (particularly when some show no appreciation for the Party raison d'être eg as in the quoted image driving gas-guzzling performance cars).

Thinking more strategically can also achieve better results eg Ms Lucas seeing the benefits of Burnham's support for Proportional Electoral voting rather than the short term potential to gain 1 more MP (probably not achieving that, just splitting the Labour vote risking Reform winning and Labour, Greens and the electorate losing out.

Or look at Reform, driving so much policy but with very low numbers of MPs. In some areas Reform are determining Labour policy eg cruelty towards Refugees/asylum seekers.

 

[briantrumpet]

Or look at Reform, driving so much policy but with very low numbers of MPs. In some areas Reform are determining Labour policy eg cruelty towards Refugees/asylum seekers.

It helps when you've got a lot of the press seemingly on your side.

 

[Beebo]

Six Green councillors in London have already quit.
What’s the point in standing for election if you can’t follow through with the commitment?
Part of this seems to be incompetence on the part of the Greens for standing candidates who work as teachers, so can’t take their seats as they are already empty the local authority.

 

[Poacher]

Six Green councillors in London have already quit.
What’s the point in standing for election if you can’t follow through with the commitment?
Part of this seems to be incompetence on the part of the Greens for standing candidates who work as teachers, so can’t take their seats as they are already empty the local authority.

Are they employed by the local authority if the school in question is an academy?

 

[icowden]

Six Green councillors in London have already quit.
What’s the point in standing for election if you can’t follow through with the commitment?
Part of this seems to be incompetence on the part of the Greens for standing candidates who work as teachers, so can’t take their seats as they are already empty the local authority.

The first was ineligible for undisclosed reasons, but the error was apparently "in good faith"
The second and third were because they did not realise that teachers could not be councillors and the local green party also did not realise this.
The fourth was unable to continue for unspecified reasons.
The fifth was arrested over allegations that she had made anti-semitic posts on social media.
The sixth is due to ill health.

As a comparator, Reform councillors have had to quit due to:

• Posts suggesting melting down Nigerians to fill potholes.
• Sharing Nazi images
• Posts celebrating the rape of a Sikh women and calling Muslim people rats, and whites "the master race"
• Being discovered to have beaten his wife black and blue and been arrested for child sexual offences
• Being a hardcord porn star

Before the elections, in the last year alone, 17 Reform councillors had to stand down due to vetting, conduct, failing to do their job etc