Donald I, emperor of the world.

[midlandsgrimpeur]

People cheered over JFK and Dr King's assassinations. Both completely innocent and unwarranted deaths, as was Kirk's. This is not some sort of failure of the left. We need to start highlighting our failures on both sides otherwise there will never be middle ground or understanding, just division and that leads to more hatred, death and misery.

 

[Rusty Nails]

People cheered over JFK and Dr King's assassinations. Both completely innocent and unwarranted deaths, as was Kirk's. This is not some sort of failure of the left. We need to start highlighting our failures on both sides otherwise there will never be middle ground or understanding, just division and that leads to more hatred, death and misery.

When people with limited imagination stop thinking of lefties and righties as two amorphous but nevertheless diametrically opposed groups there might be a chance.

 

[briantrumpet]

It’s far easier to ban guns than hope to change people’s attitudes.
There will always be a tiny minority of wrong’uns on both sides. Giving them access to guns makes it too easy for them to kill.
There is a reason why the country with the most guns has the highest death rates.

If this is accurate, it's fairly stark.

https://tmblr.co/ZgYZIs2MZYHZK

 

[Beebo]

If this is accurate, it's fairly stark.

View attachment 9975

https://tmblr.co/ZgYZIs2MZYHZK

Wow. More guns equals more deaths.
Who would guess that?
Surely just tell people to be more responsible?

 

[secretsqirrel]

If this is accurate, it's fairly stark.

View attachment 9975

https://tmblr.co/ZgYZIs2MZYHZK

Got to say there is very little that makes me proud of UK these days. But this is definitely one

 

[Bazzer]

If this is accurate, it's fairly stark.

View attachment 9975

https://tmblr.co/ZgYZIs2MZYHZK

You only have to look at some of the gun channels on YouTube to see the range and number of guns held by some Americans. For example, Matt Carragher of Demolition Ranch had at one time a small arsenal. Whilst he has now sold a large number of them as he was closing down his channel, I would expect those he has retained to be still well into double figures.

(This video is from 2021 but he accumulated further guns until he closed his channel earlier this year)

He may be an extreme example as to the numbers he personally held, but when he sold his guns they were unlikely to go to people/families who were already gunless.

 

[briantrumpet]

Got to say there is very little that makes me proud of UK these days. But this is definitely one

Road deaths too. Still too high, but 7th in world terms, and best of the large nations.

Back to gun deaths, and I still remember the stark figure of more Americans having been killed by guns in the first 35 *days* of one year by US police than Britons killed by British Police with guns in 35 *years*. And you'd have hoped they'd have been the 'good guys with the guns'. The utter blindness to brutal statistics is literally incredible.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Road deaths too. Still too high, but 7th in world terms, and best of the large nations.

Back to gun deaths, and I still remember the stark figure of more Americans having been killed by guns in the first 35 *days* of one year by US police than Britons killed by British Police with guns in 35 *years*. And you'd have hoped they'd have been the 'good guys with the guns'. The utter blindness to brutal statistics is literally incredible.

Sadly, the statistics are meaningless to those who are pro guns. It is a unique historical and cultural association to gun ownership in the US that dates back to the founding of the country, the literal right to bear arms of the 2nd amendment is sacrosanct for many.

Having studied a lot of this stuff at undergrad and postgrad, when you look at the various historical narratives around guns it is fascinating and disturbing. The one thing you quickly realise is that those who want them couldn't care less how many people are killed by them, they just don't want anyone taking their guns away.

 

[briantrumpet]

Sadly, the statistics are meaningless to those who are pro guns. It is a unique historical and cultural association to gun ownership in the US that dates back to the founding of the country, the literal right to bear arms of the 2nd amendment is sacrosanct for many.

Having studied a lot of this stuff at undergrad and postgrad, when you look at the various historical narratives around guns it is fascinating and disturbing. The one thing you quickly realise is that those who want them couldn't care less how many people are killed by them, they just don't want anyone taking their guns away.

As I mentioned previously, I think it's a population-wide delusion, on both left and right (though more virulent on the right). It's the cult of the gun, and no reason will pierce the belief.

I think it's healthy that I still have to stare at French police in railway stations patrolling with a hand ready on a big bangy gun, because it looks so strange to UK eyes.

 

[Pinno718]

In fact he is on record as stating that it's worth having gun deaths to protect rights he believes he has been given by his flavour of great sky pixie.

Not quite a Darwin award but still ironic.

This ^.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I watched the debate, Charlie Kirk acquitted himself very well, across a whole range of topics.

There were no gotcha moments. Where he lacked finer details on certain aspects, he talked in general terms that people should aspire to try harder to achieve their aims in life and not resort to the politics of envy. He gave good examples of the Asian population of the US, being the most, high achievers and wealthy, despite being a tiny proportion of the country. He talked of the Jews being extremely successful the world over, despite being largely oppressed, exterminated by the millions in the last century.

Yep, he used rhetoric to spout generalities and ignored questions that required specific answers…or the finer details as you so carefully put it. He was a shallow chancer, but understood that that is all that matters to many.

That last man made him look what he was.

Out of his depth.

As a follow up to our discussion of Kirk's debating skills this is an interesting clip from the young woman in the debate with the stars and stripes jumper explaining how predictably limited she knew his answers and questions would be and how she prepared. Unlike the unprepared students he selected in the US and the clips he showed of them in highly edited form.

She handed him his arris.


View: https://youtu.be/Zn0_2iACV-A?si=5bpsRZcxhssNnZhF

 

[Ianonabike]

Like a lot of people, the first I heard of Charlie Kirk was when he was gone. Not wanting to get trapped in a bubble, I have tried to watch as many videos and read as many articles tearing into him as lauding him. So far I am more an admirer than not, despite that I generally find bible thumpers tedious. "Prove me wrong," he famously said, and after watching the Cambridge University debate I think a few of them, including Tilly Middlehurst (who went viral afterwards, though I missed all that), did. It doesn't matter. What matters is he put himself out there, again and again and again, making converts to debate.

From the BBC article linked above: "One of the most surprising experiences from my encounter with Kirk was the magnanimity and generosity of his many supporters, who were willing to talk to me, listen to me and acknowledge peaceful disagreement, even changing our preconceptions about each other."