Ed Davey & Lib Dem Challenges

[Psamathe]

And the fact that even well-meaning most tax cuts collected via the vendors (e.g. VAT) simply end up as a higher profit margin (e.g. VAT on tampons/sanitary pads - when it was reduced, only 20% of the reduction ended up in lower prices).

Even worse (for tax cuts not being passed on to consumers) - ebooks

The abolition of VAT on ebooks was a £200m handout to publishers​

The VAT cut means that ebook publishers could have cut their prices by 17%7 and made the same profit. They didn’t. Over this period there were 8%+ price reductions for comparable products – computer game and app downloads – where there was no VAT cut. There were no overall price reductions for ebooks.

 

[briantrumpet]

Even worse (for tax cuts not being passed on to consumers) - ebooks

The trouble is that the government can't legislate for how those tax cuts are used.

Even if given as benefits (e.g. housing benefit), the money eventually gets syphoned off by the businesses, as there's more money sloshing round in the system needing to find a home.

Worth remembering too that fuel duty has been frozen for 15 years.

All that the 'price at the pump' has been doing is a free market response to shortage, and there's been a corresponding drop in demand, which suggests that the 'mechanism' is working to reduce consumption at a time of shortage, leaving fuel for more essential activities.

 

[Dorset Boy]

Doesn't address the root of the problem which is an over reliance on fossil fuels in the first place.

But we can't stop relying on fossil fuels overnight, and we are moving away from them where possible at a reasonable rate.
In the meantime high fuel costs add to the cost of living issue, and bump up the cost of food and other goods.

 

[Dorset Boy]

The trouble is that the government can't legislate for how those tax cuts are used.

Even if given as benefits (e.g. housing benefit), the money eventually gets syphoned off by the businesses, as there's more money sloshing round in the system needing to find a home.

Worth remembering too that fuel duty has been frozen for 15 years.

All that the 'price at the pump' has been doing is a free market response to shortage, and there's been a corresponding drop in demand, which suggests that the 'mechanism' is working to reduce consumption at a time of shortage, leaving fuel for more essential activities.

But there's also VAT on fuel, so the government has been receiving more revenue from increased fuel costs.

 

[briantrumpet]

But there's also VAT on fuel, so the government has been receiving more revenue from increased fuel costs.

As have the oil companies, though I suspect you'd be against a windfall tax. As I say, it seems to be the free market mechanism doing exactly what it should in a time of shortage.

Anyway, IIRC, you've been saying that the government finances are pretty dire (I don't think anyone is disagreeing), so cutting taxes seems irresponsible right now. The fact that demand is elastic (the evidence being that usage has dropped) suggests that not all mileage is essential, so people are making choices, which is good.

 

[Dorset Boy]

I would not be against a windfall tax on the pertro companies.
That could easily compensate for the 10 p cut in fuel duty.

In case you hadn't noticed, but diesel is up something like 57p/l, or roughly a third in the last 6 months or so. And petrol is up about 35 p/l So of course people are cutting back. With a big increase in electricity and gas prices with winter approaching, what else would you expect.

Perhaps you are comfortably off, so do give a monkey's about those less well off than yourself?

 

[Pblakeney]

I would not be against a windfall tax on the pertro companies.
That could easily compensate for the 10 p cut in fuel duty.

In case you hadn't noticed, but diesel is up something like 57p/l, or roughly a third in the last 6 months or so. And petrol is up about 35 p/l So of course people are cutting back. With a big increase in electricity and gas prices with winter approaching, what else would you expect.

Perhaps you are comfortably off, so do give a monkey's about those less well off than yourself?

I blame Donnie.
A 10p cut might help for those keeping score but it won't be noticed at the pumps as prices are still rising.

 

[Dorset Boy]

I blame Donnie.
A 10p cut might help for those keeping score but it won't be noticed at the pumps as prices are still rising.

Well let's just do nothing then......

 

[briantrumpet]

Well let's just do nothing then......

There are no easy fixes when a lunatic in the White House is screwing the world economy over by starving it of a (still) vital resource by waging a pointless and unwinnable war. It's going to cost all of us a lot of money.

 

[Pblakeney]

Well let's just do nothing then......

They are doing something. Not putting on an increase which was supposed to be added years ago is doing something.
Doing nothing would be increasing fuel duty as originally planned.

 

[Mr Celine]

Why is a 10p cut in fuel duty at a time of record prices at the pumps during a cost of living crisis daft?
Brian, you are an exception in driving a 70 year old clapped out banger 100 miles a year.
Davy is promoting something to help the majority by reducing fuel costs which actually have a much wider impact.

Do the school run parents drive their kids half a mile to school because fuel is expensive or because it's cheap?

Do the boy racers with their fart cannon exhausts drive round and round the one-way system because fuel is expensive or because it's cheap?

Is the number of cars driving around with permanently attached tentboxes due to fuel being expensive or due to fuel being cheap?

Is the current fashion for driving mahoosive pickup trucks a result of fuel being expensive or a result of fuel being cheap?

Is there a drip drip drip of diesel visible on the roads after every shower because it's expensive or because it's cheap?

Is no one driving any slower because fuel is expensive or because it's cheap?

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Is the number of cars driving around with permanently attached tentboxes due to fuel being expensive or due to fuel being cheap?

All good questions, but mostly just pointing up the increasing tension between consumer fashion and reality.

Tent boxes should have their own thread.

The price of diesel affects most things we consume. Even if you're totally off-grid you're going to need a spade and a wheelbarrow.

 

[Psamathe]

But we can't stop relying on fossil fuels overnight, and we are moving away from them where possible at a reasonable rate.

Trouble is the Climate won't be "Oh, they are trying so I'll hold off destroying them for a bit. Give them a chance". We are already suffering horrendous impacts and need to act further and faster.

"Reasonable Rate" seems based on the economics we have created basically short term. It's far cheaper to act nopw than it will be to act later (whilst also suffering the economic impacts of the damage we dragged our feet over avoiding).

 

[C R]

Trouble is the Climate won't be "Oh, they are trying so I'll hold off destroying them for a bit. Give them a chance". We are already suffering horrendous impacts and need to act further and faster.

"Reasonable Rate" seems based on the economics we have created basically short term. It's far cheaper to act nopw than it will be to act later (whilst also suffering the economic impacts of the damage we dragged our feet over avoiding).

Why do you hate filthy rich selfish people are wealth creators?

 

[Psamathe]

Double VED with the increased amounts being ring-fenced for cycle infrastructure.

That would force the petrol heads to buy hatchbacks if only because they couldn't tollerate seeing their money going to help cyclists.