Gender again. Sorry!

[icowden]

Sure, but that instruction to the GP must have come downwards in process from the gender recognition panel rather than from a request from N.

It isn't meant to. The GP is meant to have had a discussion with the patient to ensure that they understand what is involved:-

GP practice notifies PCSE that a patient wishes to change gender via the enquiries form. The practice should include the patient’s name and NHS number in the notification to PCSE, plus confirmation that they have discussed with the patient that this will involve the creation of a new NHS number

 

[monkers]

It isn't meant to. The GP is meant to have had a discussion with the patient to ensure that they understand what is involved:-

I've checked that with the GMC. They say that is the case for patients who have requested their GP change their sex / gender marker but do not have a GRC.

I missed something you said earlier, in fact only just noticed it in the last few minutes. That something was the most important of anything else you'd said - that offer of help. It's so very much appreciated ~ thank you. xx

 

[icowden]

I've checked that with the GMC. They say that is the case for patients who have requested their GP change their sex / gender marker but do not have a GRC.

That surprises me slightly as I didn't think GRC's were issued by the NHS. Happy to be corrected though.

I missed something you said earlier, in fact only just noticed it in the last few minutes. That something was the most important of anything else you'd said - that offer of help. It's so very much appreciated ~ thank you. xx

No problem. I do have a lot of technical knowledge about these systems, and worked for a while in clinical governance. Record keeping is a very important part of NHS care. It just isn't acceptable to lose someone's data.

 

[monkers]

I've checked that with the GMC. They say that is the case for patients who have requested their GP change their sex / gender marker but do not have a GRC.

Icowden said ...That surprises me slightly as I didn't think GRC's were issued by the NHS. Happy to be corrected though.

You're right to think that they not - as they are not, but I'm tempted to think that they are able to give the instruction to issue new NHS numbers. The panel do make other instructions to other public bodies. For example, passports - and this is another bone of contention for N - local passport offices can not renew her passport. This is supposed to protect identity, but actually makes things worse. N had to go to Peterborough in person to renew her passport.

Hiring a car, another nightmare, when the hirer requests to see her licence and she hands it over, they then attempt on-line verification checks. This check comes back as negative due to identity protection. This immediately alerts the checker that the person is a trans person but not able to give hire of a car. So then N has to apply on-line for a code to allow the licence to be checked, which they then can, which again allows them to know that the hirer is a trans person. It's so stupid.

 

[icowden]

Hiring a car, another nightmare, when the hirer requests to see her licence and she hands it over, they then attempt on-line verification checks. This check comes back as negative due to identity protection. This immediately alerts the checker that the person is a trans person but not able to give hire of a car. So then N has to apply on-line for a code to allow the licence to be checked, which they then can, which again allows them to know that the hirer is a trans person. It's so stupid.

Part of the problem is that a lot of this software is reasonably old (for software) and the issue was considered to affect such a tiny minority of people that the software was never update to deal with it. Public Sector is very slow to update IT. I shouldn't complain though as it keeps me in work...!

It does go a little against the grain however as your medical record is supposed to be your medical record. Changes to it should always be in consultation with the patient (unless they lack capacity) and not carried out by automated processes in the interest of convenience.

 

[multitool]

Is it ok for me to agree with this woman, Aurora (and twatsticks for that matter)?

Or in doing so am I shouting women down?


View: https://twitter.com/KirstieMAllsopp/status/1649007419647770624?s=20

 

[icowden]

Is it ok for me to agree with this woman, Aurora (and twatsticks for that matter)?

If you want to. It's a free country. I'd question why you feel the need to call people names. It makes you look weak and lacking in imagination.

Or in doing so am I shouting women down?

Why would you think that? Kirsty Allsop has made her views on women and feminsm clear:-

I hate bullying & bigotry. I think women’s sport & vulnerable women’s spaces shld be protected. Using preferred pronouns is simply good manners. I’m a woman, not a cis woman. I’m not threatened by men who’d rather be women, good decision, I love being a woman, except at Christmas

They would appear to be opposite to yours.

 

[multitool]

No, they don't. Take your bigot glasses off, icow, and try again. Might help if you read the thread you pulled that quote out of rather than trying an Aurora and decontextualising something.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Or in doing so am I shouting women down?

Of course not, you're a self declared champion of women's rights.
Might be a good idea to ask nurse to check your medication.

 

[multitool]

Pipe down, Bob. The grown ups are talking.

 

[icowden]

No, they don't. Take your bigot glasses off, icow, and try again. Might help if you read the thread you pulled that quote out of rather than trying an Aurora and decontextualising something.

It's hardly decontexualising. The full text of the tweet you shared is:-

The more who pile in, the more I realise why standing up for Transpeople matters. Telling me I shouldn’t support perverts, weirdos, child abusers etc just tells me that you have a twisted view of the trans community. I’m aware of the importance of safeguarding vulnerable women, there are concerns about female sport, and I worry about anyone under 18 giving up their fertility (tbh I so loved having my kids I worry about anyone of any age giving up their fertility, but parenting is not for everyone) but the fear & hate being deliberately manufactured by certain groups is cruel & dangerous and cannot be justified in anyway. Insults fly around in any debate these days, but strong woman don’t crush minorities, they help to protect them.

Sharon Davies asked her how she would rationalise that with self-ID

It actually seems to be a fairly normal discussion about the need to protect women's rights and support the trans community.
You have consistently argued that women do not need to have rights and that trans rights trump women's rights in that any man should be able to say that they are now a woman and not have that questioned because there are already safeguards in place

I have consistently argued that self-ID presents a risk to women and we should really think about whether it is a good idea.

It's almost like the debate is quite nuanced.

 

[multitool]

You have consistently argued that women do not need to have rights and that trans rights trump women's rights in that any man should be able to say that they are now a woman and not have that questioned because there are already safeguards in place

I haven't argued any of those things. You are doing an Aurora.

I have consistently argued that self-ID presents a risk to women and we should really think about whether it is a good idea.

No, you've stated it. You haven't argued it, because you haven't actually presented any evidence to support your claim.

There should be plenty of evidence of it, icow, there are 40 countries with self-ID.

Why are you having such a problem finding evidence?

 

[newfhouse]

we should really think about whether it is a good idea.

Yes, I think we should too. Is it worth looking at countries that have already moved in this direction so that we can deal in fact and not fear?

 

[multitool]

Fact? FACT?????

icow and Aurora don't do fact. They do fear.

 

[icowden]

Yes, I think we should too. Is it worth looking at countries that have already moved in this direction so that we can deal in fact and not fear?

Yes we should. However we should also bear in mind that countries do tend to be different. For example Argentina is being held up as leading the way.

According to the Women's Office of the Argentine Supreme Court of Justice, an average of one femicide was recorded every 35 hours in the country last year, with 81% of those killed classified as victims of domestic violence.

So there is a problem of violence against women. It would therefore seem more likely that a transwoman in Argentina is going to keep their head down, and that due to the masculinised culture of Argentina that being a transwoman would be seen as far more undesirable than it might in this country.