Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

Trans people are being cast as a "threat". Either à la Aurorabora by constantly equating them with sex attackers, or as a cult seeking to recruit your children, or as a threat to women's sport.

Real world evidence of this actually happening? The square root of fùck all.

The anti-trans movement of obsessive weirdos with their fatuous blogs, their ridiculous protest marches led by manipulative and exploitative charlatans like KJK, they are the cult. And if it wasn't trans people they are invoking hatred for, it would be 5g masts, gypsies, covid vaccines or some other nonsense.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Transwomen offend at the same rate as other men. Hence there is no good reason to treat them as different from any other men. The safety, dignity, privacy argument applies to them as much as to any other male. Why not let all males into single sex female services and facilities?

Plenty of real world evidence of transwomen (or rather people who say they are transwomen) being placed in women's jails with ill effect.

Plenty of evidence of transwomen displacing women in female sports. Here's a list just about cycling:

https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes?lang=en

One rider mentioned, Austin Killips, won the jersey for Queen of the Mountains the other day for example. Now leading in the Women's race.

There's a clear clash of rights in some areas and calling everybody who has issues with the above isn't going to make the debate go away, however vitriolic you choose to be about it.

 

[monkers]

Transwomen offend at the same rate as other men. Hence there is no good reason to treat them as different from any other men. The safety, dignity, privacy argument applies to them as much as to any other male. Why not let all males into single sex female services and facilities?

Plenty of real world evidence of transwomen (or rather people who say they are transwomen) being placed in women's jails with ill effect.

Plenty of evidence of transwomen displacing women in female sports. Here's a list just about cycling:

https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes?lang=en

One rider mentioned, Austin Killips, won the jersey for Queen of the Mountains the other day for example. Now leading in the Women's race.

There's a clear clash of rights in some areas and calling everybody who has issues with the above isn't going to make the debate go away, however vitriolic you choose to be about it.

Relentless lies from a relentless liar. If endurance lying was an olympic sport, then we'd look no further for a winner.

Crime rates = debunked as tosh. Number of trans women in prison = debunked as tosh. Women's prisons are safe spaces = debunked as tosh.

We must change UK law because of a successful cyclist in the USA = not just flawed logic but a flawed mind.

There is no clash of rights because in convention law: trans women are women and trans men are men.

Fascism is an actual ideology that serves up lies in order to stoke up hatred of others who are seen as soft targets for dehumanisation. In the UK, this is how elections are lost and won.

In the UK the first past the post system is a fear-based system. Don't vote Tory get Labour, don't vote Labour get Tory.

Remember the history of the last century. Pub signs; ''No Irish, no wogs, no dogs''. Political slogans; ''vote Labour if you want a nigger for a neighbour''.

Today; the target is trans people, and a return to a kind of section 28.

Hate is alive and well. I'm noticing who is doing it. I hope others are too.

 

[classic33]

Careful, I don't think she's admitted Murder; she is on trial having entered not guilty pleas.

The figures came from a piece comparing her to Allitt and others in the same job.

 

[classic33]

Transwomen offend at the same rate as other men. Hence there is no good reason to treat them as different from any other men. The safety, dignity, privacy argument applies to them as much as to any other male. Why not let all males into single sex female services and facilities?

Plenty of real world evidence of transwomen (or rather people who say they are transwomen) being placed in women's jails with ill effect.

Plenty of evidence of transwomen displacing women in female sports. Here's a list just about cycling:

https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes?lang=en

One rider mentioned, Austin Killips, won the jersey for Queen of the Mountains the other day for example. Now leading in the Women's race.

There's a clear clash of rights in some areas and calling everybody who has issues with the above isn't going to make the debate go away, however vitriolic you choose to be about it.

Legally she's a woman.
Whether you like it or not is another matter entirely.

I'll remind you that you championed an athlete who failed to make the US Olympic Team when she decided to run for another country. Explaining that her advantage was a chance event. She was born that way. Now you've dropped the argument, and have said she shouldn't be competing against other women because she has an unfair advantage. The same advantage she had before.

You mention Paula Radcliffe, a long distance runner. A discipline in which women have a natural advantage over men, why? She's no danger to runners male or female, unless they get beaten by her, and the shouts of "cheat" start being heard.

"don't-don't come down here with your anger, trying to prove something to yourself. This is a world you'll never understand. And you always fear what you don't understand."

 

[AndyRM]

Transwomen offend at the same rate as other men. Hence there is no good reason to treat them as different from any other men. The safety, dignity, privacy argument applies to them as much as to any other male. Why not let all males into single sex female services and facilities?

Plenty of real world evidence of transwomen (or rather people who say they are transwomen) being placed in women's jails with ill effect.

Plenty of evidence of transwomen displacing women in female sports. Here's a list just about cycling:

https://twitter.com/i_heart__bikes?lang=en

One rider mentioned, Austin Killips, won the jersey for Queen of the Mountains the other day for example. Now leading in the Women's race.

There's a clear clash of rights in some areas and calling everybody who has issues with the above isn't going to make the debate go away, however vitriolic you choose to be about it.

Transwomen aren't men. Your constant misgendering shows a total lack of respect, which is ironic given your position.

 

[icowden]

I'll remind you that you championed an athlete who failed to make the US Olympic Team when she decided to run for another country. Explaining that her advantage was a chance event. She was born that way. Now you've dropped the argument, and have said she shouldn't be competing against other women because she has an unfair advantage. The same advantage she had before.

So f we learn something we aren't allowed to change our opinion or stance? Got it. We have to think the same way forever.

 

[icowden]

I wonder if icow will pause to reflect on gay rights, and the fight against prejudice and the right to not be beaten up for who you are, were not won by gay people hiding and keeping quiet.

Perhaps he'll take a moment to consider that trans people are going through exactly the same thing now and the way he frames trans people is exactly the same as how homophobic bigots frame gay people, now, and in previous decades.

What is it about this topic that make you unable to debate it in an intelligent way? Why do you have to resort to slurs, gaslighting and being abusive?

Are you a good example of what is wrong with the "pro-trans" movement or whatever you want to call it?

What you do is quite simply wrong. If you want people like me or @AuroraSaab, then being mysogenistic and abusive, isn't actually going to achieve it.

You debate well on other topics, but this one seems so emotive for you that you lose your rational faculties and can only try to shut down discussion.

Which is the problem.

@monkers and I may have differing opinions but I think that we debate each other respectfully. You, on the other hand, are just rude and unpleasant. Perhaps you should consider how to win us over.

 

[multitool]

"Slurs" "gaslighting" "abusive" "mysogynistic [sic]" "shutting down debate" "rude" "unpleasant".

Yeah...you'll be able to point to the elements of my post which you quote that correspond to that description, won't you.

Whereas your post is all of those things.

 

[classic33]

So f we learn something we aren't allowed to change our opinion or stance? Got it. We have to think the same way forever.

That's not what was said.

The "extra help" the runner gained, by defect at birth, was natural when it suited the cause that was trying to be promoted. Now, the same athlete, with the same issue, shouldn't be allowed to compete against other women because of this advantage.
The only thing that's changed in that time is that the runner no longer fits the narrative being pushed, and on those very shaky grounds should be prevented from competing against other women. Unless willing to submit to a regime of drugs.
Despite the fact that she was born female.

 

[icowden]

"Slurs" "gaslighting" "abusive" "mysogynistic [sic]" "shutting down debate" "rude" "unpleasant".
Yeah...you'll be able to point to the elements of my post which you quote that correspond to that description, won't you.
Whereas your post is all of those things.

Where have I told you what to think, or called you names? I'm not female, but you constantly tell Aurora how and what she thinks, and attempt to shut her down. You did the same to our farmer friend.

You do realise that I know that the word "cow" is in my surname? This was made quite clear when I was at school, just in case I had missed it.
This board is supposed to be for grown ups.

 

[icowden]

The "extra help" the runner gained, by defect at birth, was natural when it suited the cause that was trying to be promoted.

No, the extra help is that the runner despite presenting as female was actually male.

Now, the same athlete, with the same issue, shouldn't be allowed to compete against other women because of this advantage.

Yes, because they are not genetically female and thus have an inherent advantage which would put biological females at a disadvantage

The only thing that's changed in that time is that the runner no longer fits the narrative being pushed, and on those very shaky grounds should be prevented from competing
against other women. Unless willing to submit to a regime of drugs.

I agree, She should not compete against other women. Presenting as female at birth is not the same as being female at birth.
She is in a very unfortunate position, but biologically she is not female.

 

[multitool]

Where have I told you what to think, or called you names? I'm not female, but you constantly tell Aurora how and what she thinks, and attempt to shut her down. You did the same to our farmer friend.

You do realise that I know that the word "cow" is in my surname? This was made quite clear when I was at school, just in case I had missed it.
This board is supposed to be for grown ups.

I critique Aurora's views, but also her tactics which are fundamentally dishonest. So does Monkers, in far more robust terms than I, icow. Is that misogyny on her part too?

Mudsticks started a war with me. Go back and have a look. So, guess what? I reciprocated on her terms. Don't go crying misogyny when the woman slinging shìt gets some of it back in her face.

If I'm misogynistic then why do I treat every other woman here (monkers, theclaud etc) differently?

You've got this weird filter where everything you view is coloured by your own political stance. That isn't my fault, it's yours. Also your name. Sorry to hear you were bullied at school over it. But again, not me that did it. I shorten it to icow, much as people shorten my forum name to 'Tool'.

Get over yourself.

 

[multitool]

View: https://twitter.com/Esqueer_/status/1652376571548782595?s=20


Understood what is happening yet, icowden?

This is in the US. But hard right and far right are doing the same in Honor Oak, albeit without the swastikas...yet.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Crime rates = debunked as tosh.

Simply not true. Transwomen offend at the same rate as men. I've given you the stats and research several times.

Number of trans women in prison = debunked as tosh. Women's prisons are safe spaces = debunked as tosh.

Again, self ID in America and Canada has allowed men who claim to be trans to transfer to women's prisons. Just because women's prisons are unpleasant already is no reason to add men to the mix and make them worse. Your concern for vulnerable women really is about zero.

We must change UK law because of a successful cyclist in the USA = not just flawed logic but a flawed mind.

'A' successful cyclist? There were more than one in that list, it was around 20, and they are winning races and taking places and opportunities away from women.

Transwomen aren't men. Your constant misgendering shows a total lack of respect, which is ironic given your position.

You are making an extraordinary claim without evidence and telling me it's disrespectful not to believe it. It's not disrespectful to not believe in astrology, a flat earth, or creationism either.

Also, Andy, I'm afraid that by not putting a gap between trans and woman, you have committed the egregious sin of having transphobic grammar.