Gulf War No.37: Iranistan

[C R]

0You've been there much more recently than me, so I'm cautious about questioning what you say, but...

do your observations apply just to the sophisticated city dwellers, or to the rural poor as well?

Rural areas are more conservative, but not overly so from what I saw. For instance, Zan Zendegui Azadi was not limited to large cities, it was really widespread, and that was a progressive political protest.

I was there last about ten years ago, and from what I hear, the change has only accelerated. For instance, nowadays many women do not cover their hair and the authorities seemed to have given up on enforcing it. You could see that in the reports from Lyse Doucet a couple of weeks ago.

I'll leave in here a comment on YouTube from Nikan and Arash, from Confess, replying to someone suggesting that a foreign intervention would help. These guys actually suffered the regime, and have no illusions about what the regime is and is capable of.

https://www.youtube.com/post/UgkxLE...Ag.ASCkdoNJQNzASDgpIaDg8-&si=CBUPJUeeCEddBvjI

 

[Moodyman]

Iran is not a made up country like Pakistan. Khomeini didn't unify de country in any sense because it didn't need unifying. The Persian traditions like Norooz and Yalda, and others are shared across ethnic and religious groups, that shared culture is what unifies the country and existed long before islam. The mullahs actually actively try to discourage those traditions.

Regarding islamic fundamentalist society, in Pakistan seems to be trivial to whip up a mob with accusations of blasphemy, in Iran you'd get a meh, can I join in (the blasphemy).

Look CR… I usually find you a balanced guy. But on this occasion, you seem to be missing the subtleties. Let me explain.

Whilst the place we call Iran has a very long and distinguished history, its existence as a nation state is quite short. It came into being in the early 1900s.

During the first the few decades it faced considerable upheaval thanks to Britain and the USA. Khomeini used Islam to unite the different factions against the US/British imposed Shah and later, against the US.

Pakistan’s history is as old as ancient Iran’s. But, it too is a relatively young nation state with various ethnicities.

Zia promoted Islamism as a unifier against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and Indian threat following the loss of Bengal.

You’ve picked out a handful of fringe cases relating to Pakistan’s blasphemy law. That’s where individuals have misused the blasphemy laws to settle personal scores against other individuals. This, in a country of 250m+ people.

I could easily pick out some high profile paedophile cases in the UK and conclude the UK, a society of nearly 70m, has a fundamentalist tendency to rape children. But, would that be true?

 

[Moodyman]

Past and present are not the same

They are intrinsically linked. The present is shaped by the past.

 

[PurplePenguin]

I went from one Baluchistan to another Baluchistan. I encountered little difference.

The mistake most Western travellers make is treating Eastern countries as single entities. Whereas they’re made up of many disparate groups.

Think Spain (Basque, Catalan, Castilian), but turbo charged.

NW Iran, is closer to the culture of the Caucasus - Azeri.

Eastern and Southern Pakistan is closer to India. Western Pakistan closer to Afghanistan. SW Pakistan is culturally very close to SE Iran.

Spoken Urdu is Hindi written in a Persian script.

Spoken Hindi is a modern form of old Sanskrit and Persian, but written in a Sanskrit script.

Anyone able to read Farsi can read Urdu, but can’t read Hindi.

Anybody able to speak Farsi, won’t be able to converse in Urdu or Hindi.

Anybody able to speak Urdu can speak Hindi, but won’t be able to read Hindi.

Confused? I don’t blame you.

I'm only confused by the point you're making. Both Baluchistans are largely desert and not places that you would want to stop for a variety of reasons. I found Quetta very different to Bam though and I'm puzzled that anyone would think differently. Even between them - one side has smooth roads, organised transport and women, the other doesn't. Granted, the sand is similar.

 

[PurplePenguin]

They are intrinsically linked. The present is shaped by the past.

Yes, but you seem to be ignoring the most recent past. I gave you a specific example of a group of people who speak the same language with the same history, but are now very different. Another more obvious one is the two Koreas.

 

[C R]

Let me explain.

My wife is Iranian, I know Iran.

Whilst the place we call Iran has a very long and distinguished history, its existence as a nation state is quite short. It came into being in the early 1900s.

Persia, as we used to call it, or Iran as they always called it and we now call it, has a very long history, with changing dynasties and expanding and contracting territories. The cultural centre, what they call Iran Zamin (The Land Of Iran) is roughly the territory of present day Iran.

I'm not sure what you mean by becoming a nation state. Do you mean the early twentieth century revolution that tried to wrestle the Qajars into relinquishing absolute power? Do you mean the overthrow of the Qajars by grandpa Pahlavi helped by the British? Do you mean when granpa Pahlavi changed the name from Persia to Iran in the 1930s because it sounded like aryan and he thought Hitler was a jolly nice chap?

Iran didn't become a nation state any more than Spain, France or the UK did, Iran just was a nation.

 

[C R]

Sorry, I didn't mean for my post to sound that aggressive. What I am trying to explain is that Iranian society is very different from what the mullahs would like it to be, and as I have said before, the society itself, apart from the political system, is the closest to a European society you can find in the middle East.

Watch this, it is Nikan Khosravi from Confess telling his story

View: https://youtu.be/me43nqHb9jg?si=XHxFTeH4JaA5c6Uj

Confess is a product of a society that is running way ahead of what the regime can control. The bombing will destroy the regime, but also that society.

 

[briantrumpet]

Perhaps Cotton should look up 'imminent' in the dictionary.

 

[TailWindHome]