Gulf War No.37: Iranistan

[First Aspect]

The "deal" as reported. Sounds like Iran has "won" to me. All this for what was happening anyway, and Iran gets it's $20Bn back.

Key elements under discussion:

1. A three-page agreement to end the conflict
2. $20 billion in funds released to Iran
3. Transfer of some highly enriched uranium to a third country
4. Down-blending of remaining material under international monitoring
5. Permission for Iran to maintain nuclear research reactors for medical isotopes
6. A requirement that all nuclear facilities be above ground

No, it sounds like Obama won.

 

[Pblakeney]

No, it sounds like Obama won.

This could all have been avoided if it wasn't for Donnie's petulance in ripping up Obama's deal.

 

[C R]

No, it sounds like Obama won.

Obama didn't act in good faith either. The day after the nuclear deal was agreed including sanctions relief Obama's government introduced a rule that excluded anyone who travelled to Iran from the ESTA program. So, say, a French employee of Total who travelled to Iran to work on an oil project would then need a visa to travel to the US.

The side effect was that a lot of the expected development of Iranian oil following sanctions lifting was suddenly dropped, because it became clear that the US was not really going to be allowed to be lifted in any practical form.

 

[Pross]

The "deal" as reported. Sounds like Iran has "won" to me. All this for what was happening anyway, and Iran gets it's $20Bn back.

Key elements under discussion:

1. A three-page agreement to end the conflict
2. $20 billion in funds released to Iran
3. Transfer of some highly enriched uranium to a third country
4. Down-blending of remaining material under international monitoring
5. Permission for Iran to maintain nuclear research reactors for medical isotopes
6. A requirement that all nuclear facilities be above ground

Deaths on all sides, billions spent directly, billions more due to additional costs and lost trade ten after 6 weeks discuss a slightly worse plan than was in place at the start. I can now see how Trump’s negotiating and business skills left him with bankrupt casinos.

 

[Pinno718]

The "deal" as reported. Sounds like Iran has "won" to me. All this for what was happening anyway, and Iran gets it's $20Bn back.

Key elements under discussion:

1. A three-page agreement to end the conflict
2. $20 billion in funds released to Iran
3. Transfer of some highly enriched uranium to a third country
4. Down-blending of remaining material under international monitoring
5. Permission for Iran to maintain nuclear research reactors for medical isotopes
6. A requirement that all nuclear facilities be above ground

'No bombing Lebanon' clause?

 

[UglyWithaSidePart]

Obviously Iran had it far worse, a completely unjustified attack. I wonder how the American relations to lost servicemen/women are taking this.

 

[Pblakeney]

'No bombing Lebanon' clause?

Completely separate apparently. We have to trust that Donnie will keep Israel in check.
Yeah, right.

 

[Blazing Saddles]

Obviously Iran had it far worse, a completely unjustified attack. I wonder how the American relations to lost servicemen/women are taking this.

American relations are also worried about the physical condition of their loved ones. If media reports are to be believed, the US military is running out of food and troops are having to ration what little they are given.
Food parcels sent by relatives can’t get through because US Postal Service (yes, I am looking at you Lance) have suspended services.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/morale-going-time-low-iran-173403429.html

 

[First Aspect]

Obama didn't act in good faith either. The day after the nuclear deal was agreed including sanctions relief Obama's government introduced a rule that excluded anyone who travelled to Iran from the ESTA program. So, say, a French employee of Total who travelled to Iran to work on an oil project would then need a visa to travel to the US.

The side effect was that a lot of the expected development of Iranian oil following sanctions lifting was suddenly dropped, because it became clear that the US was not really going to be allowed to be lifted in any practical form.

This seems like fannying around the edges to me. Iran had China and India to seek investment from. And they were sticking to the deal regardless, supposedly.

 

[C R]

This seems like fannying around the edges to me. Iran had China and India to seek investment from. And they were sticking to the deal regardless, supposedly.

It was a big f.u. from the point of view of the Iranians. Taking with one hand what had just been given with the other.

I was working for a big manufacturer of industrial equipment at the time, who were expecting large developments and orders from oil projects in Iran, they even had advance teams being assembled in Kuwait and Oman, getting ready to start travelling to Iran. The sudden change to visa rules caused huge upheaval, with personnel that had to work in the US as well suddenly having to be withdrawn from the teams, and eventually the whole set up was canned, once it was clear that the US didn't really mean what they had signed about sanction relief. I am sure many other companies went through the same process.

Another victim was the Iranian tourism industry. The US ESTA trick meant that after the agreement travelling to Iran was actually more problematic for Europeans who might need to travel to the US too.

Bad faith in negotiations is standard procedure with the US. It didn’t start with Trump, and it won't finish with Trump. Trump just says the quiet part out loud.

 

[First Aspect]

It was a big f.u. from the point of view of the Iranians. Taking with one hand what had just been given with the other.

I was working for a big manufacturer of industrial equipment at the time, who were expecting large developments and orders from oil projects in Iran, they even had advance teams being assembled in Kuwait and Oman, getting ready to start travelling to Iran. The sudden change to visa rules caused huge upheaval, with personnel that had to work in the US as well suddenly having to be withdrawn from the teams, and eventually the whole set up was canned, once it was clear that the US didn't really mean what they had signed about sanction relief. I am sure many other companies went through the same process.

Another victim was the Iranian tourism industry. The US ESTA trick meant that after the agreement travelling to Iran was actually more problematic for Europeans who might need to travel to the US too.

Bad faith in negotiations is standard procedure with the US. It didn’t start with Trump, and it won't finish with Trump. Trump just says the quiet part out loud.

Fair enough.

This kind of thing is not unique to the US though. My wife one had the chance to do a few weeks work in Damascus, before the Arab spring. Her visa was declined because she'd taken a boat trip from Sanai to Jordan, and the Syrian Embassy reasoned she might have gone via Israeli waters.

I get that the US has been the world's bully,.but when there aren't I assure you that someone else will be.

 

[Beebo]

Another victim was the Iranian tourism industry. The US ESTA trick meant that after the agreement travelling to Iran was actually more problematic for Europeans who might need to travel to the US too.

until Iran stops taking innocent tourists as hostages, no one in their right mind is going to travel there on holiday.

 

[CXRAndy]

The Islamic naval blockade by the US continues, irgc have to give up all their nuclear material with no cost US. The straits have to remain free and open (except iran currently) until they comply.

The Lebanon conflict has nothing to do with irgc in negotiations.

Trump has enforced no bombing by Israel whilst US/Israel/Lebanon remove hezbollah from the region.

What a day in geo politics-plus oil dropped under $100 in minutes after the announcement.

Oh and the important bit starmer and the EU announced they want the straits open through defensive measures- bit late to the party as usual

 

[briantrumpet]

The subtle art of diplomacy in Trump's rotting brain:

1. Drop bombs
2. Don't drop bombs

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

This could all have been avoided if it wasn't for Donnie's petulance in ripping up Obama's deal.

You forgot to mention Iran not commiting to the original deal by refusing to allow IAEA agency's inspections. Which was the reason for Trump tearing up the bill.
I understand the Trump bashing energy but we have to be fair right?

The subtle art of diplomacy in Trump's rotting brain:

1. Drop bombs
2. Don't drop bombs

View attachment 14599

but but but some above you some others claim a list of achievements, say ''Iran won" and seem to claim it's all set in stone. Are you implying those are wrong? that they have misread/misintrepreted/not understood the different between rumored points agreed upon and points that are up for debate?