How wealthy?

[monkers]

It is very easy to criticise the economics of the last fifteen years. It is very hard to think how the economics over the next fifteen years can be restored.

People will say, ''we can not live in the past''. However we are obliged to as we continue to pay for it.

When the tree overgrows, you pollard the top, not take a chainsaw to the base. The depths of cut to the base are deepening and as the space to make those cuts diminish they creep further towards the top.

We have a system in capitalism with an inherent and fatal flaw. The billionaires are in charge of it with their rule - no government can pollard the top.

Every challenger is smeared as ''dangerous''.

In 2024 the cost of paying interest on sovereign debt was £45 billion pounds. This year it is £100 billion pounds. It's tantamount to putting the bonnet up on the car, draining the coolant, removing the radiator and fan and saying, ''thanks to the climate emergency, I don't need those any more''.

 

[Pross]

Drawback of being in Wales as I'm guessing quite a few people in the higher deciles will be in the SE or London.

I'm not sure it's really a drawback. As Rick needed reminding regularly back in the day when on his rants about boomers, you need to live somewhere so property value is only relevant as an asset if you intend to move somewhere cheaper or downsize. If a wealth tax ever does get introduced, as someone said above, it shouldn't include your primary residence. Ultimately, having a mortgage on a £250k house versus a £750k house that is pretty much identical in a different area should mean you have more disposable income although I haven't got a clue where it has gone!

 

[Stevo 666]

I'm not sure it's really a drawback. As Rick needed reminding regularly back in the day when on his rants about boomers, you need to live somewhere so property value is only relevant as an asset if you intend to move somewhere cheaper or downsize. If a wealth tax ever does get introduced, as someone said above, it shouldn't include your primary residence. Ultimately, having a mortgage on a £250k house versus a £750k house that is pretty much identical in a different area should mean you have more disposable income although I haven't got a clue where it has gone!

Only a drawback in the wealthy decile 'willy waving' stakes I guess.

In the end any wealth tax would need to exclude primary residence and I would say your pension as well. I've also argued that business shareholdings would be a bad idea to include, which doesn't really leave much for the vast majority of people. As FA and I have argued, its a crap idea as otherwise why would so few countries bother with it. Anyhow, we already have a wealth based tax called IHT.

 

[BoldonLad]

Only a drawback in the wealthy decile 'willy waving' stakes I guess.

In the end any wealth tax would need to exclude primary residence and I would say your pension as well. I've also argued that business shareholdings would be a bad idea to include, which doesn't really leave much for the vast majority of people. As FA and I have argued, its a crap idea as otherwise why would so few countries bother with it. Anyhow, we already have a wealth based tax called IHT.

Not disagreeing with but... the original chart from Mr Trumpet made reference to Pension value, several posters since (including me) have similarly mentioned Pension value. How can this be assessed, except for "Private" Pensions, how, for example, would the value of a Public Sector Inflation linked Pension be assessed, even if it can be assessed with any degree of of accuracy, the individual cannot actually access this "wealth" so, why would it be considered part of that individuals wealth?

 

[Ian H]

Not disagreeing with but... the original chart from Mr Trumpet made reference to Pension value, several posters since (including me) have similarly mentioned Pension value. How can this be assessed, except for "Private" Pensions, how, for example, would the value of a Public Sector Inflation linked Pension be assessed, even if it can be assessed with any degree of of accuracy, the individual cannot actually access this "wealth" so, why would it be considered part of that individuals wealth?

I suspect he means pension pots before conversion to income.

 

[BoldonLad]

I suspect he means pension pots before conversion to income.

Yes, I suspect that too, otherwise, it would simply be "income". But, that wasn't really the question.

 

[Ian H]

Yes, I suspect that too, otherwise, it would simply be "income". But, that wasn't really the question.

He specifically referred to assets.

 

[Stevo 666]

Not disagreeing with but... the original chart from Mr Trumpet made reference to Pension value, several posters since (including me) have similarly mentioned Pension value. How can this be assessed, except for "Private" Pensions, how, for example, would the value of a Public Sector Inflation linked Pension be assessed, even if it can be assessed with any degree of of accuracy, the individual cannot actually access this "wealth" so, why would it be considered part of that individuals wealth?

As I recall the rule of thumb is that final salary schemes are valued at 20 times the expected annual income.

 

[Pblakeney]

He specifically referred to assets.

Company pension pots are not personal assets. I guess you could ask for a valuation but that's pointless unless taking or close to.
IMO.

 

[Ian H]

Company pension pots are not personal assets. I guess you could ask for a valuation but that's pointless unless taking or close to.
IMO.

Mine wasn't a company one.

 

[Pblakeney]

Mine wasn't a company one.

Not everyone is in the same position which is why the survey is a nonsense. I think that was the point anyway. 🤔

 

[BoldonLad]

He specifically referred to assets.

So? The point was:

"how to value the pension pot" (now answered by @Stevo 666 )
"is the pension pot really an asset accessible by the individual"

 

[Ian H]

So? The point was:

"how to value the pension pot" (now answered by @Stevo 666 )
"is the pension pot really an asset accessible by the individual"

In my case I could have drawn down the whole lot, so therefore I'd have included it had I still got it.

 

[BoldonLad]

In my case I could have drawn down the whole lot, so therefore I'd have included it had I still got it.

Can you “drawdown” a public sector pension? (The example I gave)

 

[Stevo 666]

Can you “drawdown” a public sector pension? (The example I gave)

If you mean a final salary pension/defined benefit then I don't believe so.

The only options I'm aware of that you have are that some DB schemes offer the opportunity to take a tax free lump sum and a reduced annual pension thereafter: or else transfer the DB funds to a no DB pension fund before you retire - although financial advisor generally advise not to do that.