Justice or not?

Not. Justice would have been served if he had survived and been convicted and punished by the courts.

It appears that he may have died from positional asphyxia, something that police officers are trained to avoid causing, although not always successfully.

I don’t blame the crowd for doing their best to restrain an offender. We can only speculate why the police took fifteen minutes to arrive but their response time may not have been helped by their numbers being cut by 20,000 over the last decade.
 

Beebo

Senior Member
Mob justice isn’t justice.
On this occasion they have stopped the right person, but imagine if he had been an innocent man fleeing the scene.
We don’t want to see lynchings (I am aware of the racial meaning, and it’s not used in that way despite the colour of the dead man)
 

Pale Rider

Well-Known Member
Mob justice isn’t justice.
On this occasion they have stopped the right person, but imagine if he had been an innocent man fleeing the scene.
We don’t want to see lynchings (I am aware of the racial meaning, and it’s not used in that way despite the colour of the dead man)

Is there any suggestion the concerned citizens tried to harm him?

The report reads to me they were trying to restrain him, albeit I don't suppose they were too concerned about his welfare one way or the other.

Reminds me of when I was involved in restraining a street robber.

A fitter man than me caught the lad, but only because he vaulted a gate, clipped the top, and was left sprawling on the ground on the other side.

By the time I caught up, there were two or three others, one of whom was sitting on our suspect.

He was talking, trying to persuade us not to call the cops.

"Just give us a good hiding,' he said. "I'll say nowt."
 

Beebo

Senior Member
Is there any suggestion the concerned citizens tried to harm him?

The report reads to me they were trying to restrain him, albeit I don't suppose they were too concerned about his welfare one way or the other.
There’s no suggestion that they intentionally killed him, but the question was whether this was justice. Which it isn’t.
And we’re this sort of thing to be condoned then mob justice could become more common place.
 

Pale Rider

Well-Known Member
There’s no suggestion that they intentionally killed him, but the question was whether this was justice. Which it isn’t.
And we’re this sort of thing to be condoned then mob justice could become more common place.

If all they did is restrain him until the cops arrived, where is the mob justice?
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Not. Justice would have been served if he had survived and been convicted and punished by the courts.

It appears that he may have died from positional asphyxia, something that police officers are trained to avoid causing, although not always successfully.

I don’t blame the crowd for doing their best to restrain an offender. We can only speculate why the police took fifteen minutes to arrive but their response time may not have been helped by their numbers being cut by 20,000 over the last decade.

+1
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Not. Justice would have been served if he had survived and been convicted and punished by the courts.

It appears that he may have died from positional asphyxia, something that police officers are trained to avoid causing, although not always successfully.

I don’t blame the crowd for doing their best to restrain an offender. We can only speculate why the police took fifteen minutes to arrive but their response time may not have been helped by their numbers being cut by 20,000 over the last decade.
Screenshot 2021-10-27 at 09.30.36.png
 
Exactly, and this incident happened in 2017. It's actually worse than the graph shows. My contacts tell me that officers now do many of the more administrative but still necessary tasks once carried out by civilian staff.
 

glasgowcyclist

Well-Known Member
It would be helpful to follow the convention that was in place before this area was moved away from CC whereby the poster was required to provide their own view held on the story/topic linked to.

Also, posting just a bare link with no summary was not allowed.
 
OP
OP
shep

shep

Guru
It would be helpful to follow the convention that was in place before this area was moved away from CC whereby the poster was required to provide their own view held on the story/topic linked to.

Also, posting just a bare link with no summary was not allowed.
On many occasion people would just post a link and say 'discuss' so don't give me that one.

Although I think the fella dying was very unfortunate and I wouldn't have wished that on him, I have no sympathy whatsoever and in my opinion if you enter a premises masked up and carrying a weapon with every intent to rob and harm someone if they don't do what you say then you getting some of the same is more than justified.

Happy?
 
As others have said Justice would have served if the deceased had survived to be tried, convicted and punished. There is no justice in his death.

The report @shep linked to is reasonably objective in covering the circumstances and the verdict. The restraint used was contributory to the death but so was fact that deceased had taken Cocaine. I wonder how sober the intervenors were and whether their potential inebriation was a factor.

Is there any suggestion that any of them may be prosecuted?
 

Rusty Nails

Upright Member
I would say that justice is when an appropriate and proportional result is arrived at in punishment for the crime. So, no, this was not justice.

There is no way that death is an appropriate result for robbery, even robbery with an element of violence.

I cannot say that I think the people who stopped him did the wrong thing in stopping him, they possibly knew that store and the staff in there, but their sheer numbers and lack of knowledge of how to do it safely, no doubt affected by adrenaline and alcohol, clearly contributed to his death.
 
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glasgowcyclist

Well-Known Member
On many occasion people would just post a link and say 'discuss' so don't give me that one.

Although I think the fella dying was very unfortunate and I wouldn't have wished that on him, I have no sympathy whatsoever and in my opinion if you enter a premises masked up and carrying a weapon with every intent to rob and harm someone if they don't do what you say then you getting some of the same is more than justified.

Happy?

And on many occasion a moderator would pull them up for it but the mods couldn't be everywhere so several would slip through. It's just poor practice to do it.

It's useful to know your thoughts on the incident so thanks for those.
 
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