Mandy

[TailWindHome]

Isn't that something you shove up yer arse?

You may as well, for all the good it does you.

 

[Shortfall]

Everything after this is supposition

Correct. This is a discussion forum after all and we can all use our judgement and intuition to join the dots. We may not be able to prove anything but the government and the Civil Service act in such ways as to leave themselves plenty of room for manoeuvre. What we do know is that Starmer wanted a twice sacked corrupt liar and paedophile's friend to be our man in Washington and he sacked the man who he leant on to make this happen. It's not a good look.

 

[TailWindHome]

Correct. This is a discussion forum after all and we can all use our judgement and intuition to join the dots

True

But for context, last week your judgement and intuition told you Starmer was lying about the Civil Service not telling him about the 'failed' vetting .

'Gut feeling' was the phrase.

 

[TailWindHome]

I don"t think the charge that he 'leant on' Robbins has been 'made out'

If were Badenoch my first question to Starmer at PMQs would be

'Why was Ollie Robbins sacked?'

 

[Shortfall]

True

But for context, last week your judgement and intuition told you Starmer was lying about the Civil Service not telling him about the 'failed' vetting .

'Gut feeling' was the phrase.

I think I asked P Blakeney if he had a gut feeling because he didn't want to offer an opinion until the full facts were available. It was always my belief however that he would have been aware of what happened with the vetting via some nod or a wink from someone in the know and there was good reason for him to have put out the feelers due to everything that was already public knowledge about Mandelson. I can't prove it of course but even if I accept him at face value that he didn't know and wasn't informed then it's hardly the winning excuse he thinks it is because as someone else said, it makes him the most incurious barrister ever to have lived. As Jonathan Pie opines in his latest video clip, he's either a lying fúcking ba$tard, an absolutely sh1t politician, or both, neither of which are good qualities in a PM, particularly one who was a self styled Mr Process. Plenty of people have resigned for less I would venture.

 

[Rusty Nails]

This is a discussion forum after all and we can all use our judgement and intuition to join the dots.

The problem is we don't all see the dots in the same way, nor use the same lines to join them.

 

[Shortfall]

The problem is we don't all see the dots in the same way, nor use the same lines to join them.

That's fine. I'm just saying out loud what I think based on the information available and with my experience of how politicians tend to behave. Other people are free to disagree, challenge and laugh at me as they see fit. I'm sure Sir Keir will take comfort in the knowledge that there is still a small group of people on a sub section of a niche forum who are prepared to take him at his word and give him the same benefit of the doubt that he didn't extend to his opposite number when he was on the opposition benches. But for now we know for sure that he wanted as our Ambassador to America a twice disgraced paedophile's friend, we know he exerted relentless pressure on a good man to ensure this happened and then sacked him for doing his bidding. We know he claimed.to have followed the process.but had done everything in his power to subvert it. We know how former cabinet Secretary Simon Case had advised him to wait for the vetting before giving Mandelson the job but that he ignored him. We also know he tried to get his former Director of Communications Matthew Doyle a cushy job overseas and told him to hide this fact from The Foreign Secretary. We know that lots of documents relating to Mandelson's appointment requested in the Humble Address conveniently went missing along with McSweeney's mobile phone and that the government have stalled on releasing the rest. So yeah, I think Starmer has something to hide. And to think some people say I'm a cynic!

 

[Ian H]

That's fine. I'm just saying out loud what I think based on the information available and with my experience of how politicians tend to behave. Other people are free to disagree, challenge and laugh at me as they see fit. I'm sure Sir Keir will take comfort in the knowledge that there is still a small group of people on a sub section of a niche forum who are prepared to take him at his word and give him the same benefit of the doubt that he didn't extend to his opposite number when he was on the opposition benches. But for now we know for sure that he wanted as our Ambassador to America a twice disgraced paedophile's friend, we know he exerted relentless pressure on a good man to ensure this happened and then sacked him for doing his bidding. We know he claimed.to have followed the process.but had done everything in his power to subvert it. We know how former cabinet Secretary Simon Case had advised him to wait for the vetting before giving Mandelson the job but that he ignored him. We also know he tried to get his former Director of Communications Matthew Doyle a cushy job overseas and told him to hide this fact from The Foreign Secretary. We know that lots of documents relating to Mandelson's appointment requested in the Humble Address conveniently went missing along with McSweeney's mobile phone and that the government have stalled on releasing the rest. So yeah, I think Starmer has something to hide. And to think some people say I'm a cynic!

That's quite a lot of 'we'.

 

[Shortfall]

That's quite a lot of 'we'.

Ok, it's what "I" know based on information that's is freely available. DYOR if you don't believe me.

 

[TailWindHome]

That's fine. I'm just saying out loud what I think based on the information available and with my experience of how politicians tend to behave. Other people are free to disagree, challenge and laugh at me as they see fit. I'm sure Sir Keir will take comfort in the knowledge that there is still a small group of people on a sub section of a niche forum who are prepared to take him at his word and give him the same benefit of the doubt that he didn't extend to his opposite number when he was on the opposition benches. But for now we know for sure that he wanted as our Ambassador to America a twice disgraced paedophile's friend, we know he exerted relentless pressure on a good man to ensure this happened and then sacked him for doing his bidding. We know he claimed.to have followed the process.but had done everything in his power to subvert it. We know how former cabinet Secretary Simon Case had advised him to wait for the vetting before giving Mandelson the job but that he ignored him. We also know he tried to get his former Director of Communications Matthew Doyle a cushy job overseas and told him to hide this fact from The Foreign Secretary. We know that lots of documents relating to Mandelson's appointment requested in the Humble Address conveniently went missing along with McSweeney's mobile phone and that the government have stalled on releasing the rest. So yeah, I think Starmer has something to hide. And to think some people say I'm a cynic!

I've missed this bit.
What documents are missing?

 

[TailWindHome]

 

[Rusty Nails]

That's fine. I'm just saying out loud what I think based on the information available and with my experience of how politicians tend to behave. Other people are free to disagree, challenge and laugh at me as they see fit. I'm sure Sir Keir will take comfort in the knowledge that there is still a small group of people on a sub section of a niche forum who are prepared to take him at his word and give him the same benefit of the doubt that he didn't extend to his opposite number when he was on the opposition benches. But for now we know for sure that he wanted as our Ambassador to America a twice disgraced paedophile's friend, we know he exerted relentless pressure on a good man to ensure this happened and then sacked him for doing his bidding. We know he claimed.to have followed the process.but had done everything in his power to subvert it. We know how former cabinet Secretary Simon Case had advised him to wait for the vetting before giving Mandelson the job but that he ignored him. We also know he tried to get his former Director of Communications Matthew Doyle a cushy job overseas and told him to hide this fact from The Foreign Secretary. We know that lots of documents relating to Mandelson's appointment requested in the Humble Address conveniently went missing along with McSweeney's mobile phone and that the government have stalled on releasing the rest. So yeah, I think Starmer has something to hide. And to think some people say I'm a cynic!

I will agree that Starmer has been a very lacklustre PM with extremely poor judgement and the ability to push others under the bus, but that has never been a resigning matter, although the local elections and regional elections in the next few weeks will probably hurry that along.

I am possibly as cynical as you but, sadly, all the other stuff you accuse him of does not shock me as it seems to be par for the course with many (not all) of his predecessors...often relying far too much on the dodgy advisors they chose.

Despite everything I cannot see that he was lying when he talked about his knowledge of the vetting, but that in itself was another example of his lack of judgement.

I suspect that somewhere along the line he will resign quoting that well tried excuse of doing it for the good of the party to avoid the unfair distraction further haemorrhaging voter support.

I am not sure that any potential successor will be able to turn the Government's electoral chances around and the next GE will be very interesting, which is a huge understatement. People no longer seem to trust the established parties.

 

[Shortfall]

I've missed this bit.
What documents are missing?

They haven't been ab!e to recover Whatsapps from Morgan McSweeney's "stolen" mobile so either he had disappearing messages set up or he had disabled automatic back up. Either way those documents are unavailable and have been conveniently deleted from the public record. Olly Robbins testimony yesterday also revealed that because Starmer was so insistent on Mandelson having the job that he ensured it went through for him in such a way that there was no clear audit trail. Some might call it a classic establishment fudge.

 

[TailWindHome]

They haven't been ab!e to recover Whatsapps from Morgan McSweeney's "stolen" mobile so either he had disappearing messages set up or he had disabled automatic back up. Either way those documents are unavailable and have been conveniently deleted from the public record. Olly Robbins testimony yesterday also revealed that because Starmer was so insistent on Mandelson having the job that he ensured it went through for him in such a way that there was no clear audit trail. Some might call it a classic establishment fudge.

Ah. OK. I misread your comment as 'missing documents *in addition to* whatever was on McSweeney's phone'

As you were

 

[TailWindHome]

I'm revising my previous on this

I've zero concerns on the process to appoint Mandelson. There's nothing come to light that's any more than 'must have dones' and 'joining dots'

The PROCESS is ok and 'as described', as is Starmer and No.10s role

What I now think I've underestimated is the politics of the DECISION to appoint Mandelson and all the Labour infighting that it's a proxy for.
I don't think it makes any difference to the electorate but it's terminal within the party

Starmer goes before May Election 20%
Starmer goes after May Result 65%
Starner clings on to 'something else' happens 10%
Starmer leads Labour into next GE 5% and loses
Starmer leads Labour into next GE and goes as condition of coalition <1%
Starmer PM after next GE 0%