midlandsgrimpeur
Well-Known Member
You would hope it does change minds but the mental contortions people will put themselves through in order to maintain their beliefs can be quite astonishing.
Reform, and the death of the Tory Party
- Thread starter briantrumpet
- Start date
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You would hope it does change minds but the mental contortions people will put themselves through in order to maintain their beliefs can be quite astonishing.
OP
OP
briantrumpet
Squire
Maybe sticking nylon flags up on street lighting will be enough to help them forget about the council tax bills they can't afford to pay.
First Aspect
Veteran
This demographic are less likely to be politically engaged, will have proportionally less of a voice and engender proportionally less sympathy. It's a free hit if you are right wing.
midlandsgrimpeur
Well-Known Member
I would agree but the question this always raises for me, is what do people think they are voting for? I think many would agree that Reform voters are largely anti establishment, and I am sure many have been turned off by the main parties and politics in general. The general narrative is that for many it is a protest vote. The issue is that Reform are now a mainstream political party (or have certainly been positioned as one by the media) and now they are in small positions of power at LA level, they are now governing and doing just as bad a job as the other parties (if not worse). Therefore if your vote is now just really boosting another ineffective political party (and as per Brian's Durham example, one that is just ignoring your interests), what is the point in voting for them?
CXRAndy
Shaman
That's a desperate grab- why bother.
The main followers are general public, who have been ignored for decades by the two main parties. The situation is now so dire, that only radical cuts in spending is required. No money goes abroad, welfare bill slashed, mass deportation of people who are not here legally. Cuts to un- essential services.
The other side tax breaks for businesses to kick start the economy.
The tasks are enormous, UK is trillions in debt, spending hundreds of billions on interest just to stand still each year.
The pain for the UK is going to be far far worse even than now. But if people see a government doing what they ask, the Brits will stick with them
The main followers are general public, who have been ignored for decades by the two main parties. The situation is now so dire, that only radical cuts in spending is required. No money goes abroad, welfare bill slashed, mass deportation of people who are not here legally. Cuts to un- essential services.
The other side tax breaks for businesses to kick start the economy.
The tasks are enormous, UK is trillions in debt, spending hundreds of billions on interest just to stand still each year.
The pain for the UK is going to be far far worse even than now. But if people see a government doing what they ask, the Brits will stick with them
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
If you start from the position that NONE of the parties are “for” you, what difference does it make?, you either don’t vote or vote for a loud mouth.
midlandsgrimpeur
Well-Known Member
I think that touches on my point. Reform voters do believe Reform is for them, but that is because they don't view it as another political party. I think to a large degree they are voting for said loudmouth as they feel an affinity towards him, and Reform is seen more as a movement than an established party. When it becomes just another political party, which Reform is now (one could argue), what is the motivation to vote for them.
Beebo
Guru
I would vote for the party that I thought would be the least worst option.
And I can’t for the life of me work out why anyone thinks Reform are the answer.
It will be the least informed and the least able to cope financially who vote for Reform. And as always they will suffer the most when it inevitably goes tits up.
As a middle aged, white, professional, I suspect that a Reform government would probably cut my taxes and generally leave me alone. But they would be awful for the overall wellbeing of society in general.
OP
OP
briantrumpet
Squire
Given their incompetence and record in local government so far, if they did, I think they would make Truss's budget look brilliantly executed. Or they'd put up taxes anyway but claim they were cutting them. Jonathan Gullis as Chancellor, anyone? Or Mad Nads??
midlandsgrimpeur
Well-Known Member
I think the cult of Nigel is a big part of it. People have bought into his schtick that he is anti-establishment and represents them and their best interests (similar to Trump). I think once that happens it takes a lot to convince someone they are wrong, even terrible policy and practice doesn't seem to shift the needle (again, think Trump supporters!).
OP
OP
briantrumpet
Squire
FWIW, my own vote will probably go for the least worst who will keep Reform and Tories away from power. The Tories could, conceivably, come off that list if they'd come to their senses and realise the loons have defected to Reform, and that they can rediscover pragmatic sanity about the EU, business and immigration.
The worst choice (apart from voting for Reform) would be not voting and letting Reform in.
The worst choice (apart from voting for Reform) would be not voting and letting Reform in.
CXRAndy
Shaman
No they don't, they know that none of the other parties are listening to them.
OP
OP
briantrumpet
Squire
Thought there was a typo there for a moment.
Pblakeney
Veteran
There are various examples to confirm this.
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
As a middle aged, white, professional, you are not in the majority, in the area I live, nor, I would suspect, in the areas like Durham, or others where Reform are rampant.
