Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[secretsqirrel]

To go all Blakers, it's what I've been saying for well over ten years (starting over on CS): when a certain poster was desperate to destroy the Labour Party, I pointed out that a weak Labour Party was bad news for the Tories, as they wouldn't have their ideas properly scrutinised, and so their thinking would be lazy, and that was compounded by the 80-seat majority. It's why Thatcher, at least to start with, appreciated her 'Willie', as she liked the intellectual challenge from people with well-considered opinions.

I've also repeated said that the Tories could win back a lot of voters, even some on NCAP, if they became a pragmatic party of encouraging free trade (admitting their mistake on Brexit - easy: just blame Johnson) and recognising the value of immigration, which is a proven benefit to the economy. Instead of which, they've been chasing the unicorn of sovereignty and the pulling up of the drawbridge. It's not the party that made the Channel Tunnel happen, or facilitated the Single Market.

Well, I only wish I could reference those CS posts now to say "I told you so." Badenoch is the epitome of someone who doesn't like/can't do intellectual/logical argument: she seems to think putting out a punchy post on X and reading a script at PMQs will do.

Burnham has invited cross-party collaboration on issues such as social care, unfortunately I think the House just prefers to throw shiit around.

 

[briantrumpet]

Burnham has invited cross-party collaboration on issues such as social care, unfortunately I think the House just prefers to throw shiit around.

Sometimes the "Let's all work together!" is just a ploy to sound not-batshit-crazy partisan, and there is a place for opposing, even when you actually broadly support a piece of legislation (to test its soundness... which is what the adversarial system is there for), but the politics-by-memes, where it's all about trying to score social media points by winning 'meme wars' is not conducive to good legislation.

 

[Pross]

Well, I only wish I could reference those CS posts now to say "I told you so." Badenoch is the epitome of someone who doesn't like/can't do intellectual/logical argument: she seems to think putting out a punchy post on X and reading a script at PMQs will do.

That's unfair - she doesn't just read a script, she has spent years perfecting reading a script in a patronising, superior voice.

 

[Pinno718]

Patrick Mercer a former Tory MP resigned as a Member of Parliament in April 2014 after an undercover investigation caught him agreeing to ask parliamentary questions in exchange for money.

So there is good precedent for this sort of thing. And frankly every interviewer should know this sort of basic stuff.

For all the legal implications, there's one glaring thing that comes out of this:

The man of the people and his plum in the mouth 'associates' are frequenting posh clubs in Mayfair and are seen drinking champagne. Fagash doesn't hold surgeries, lives in an enclave and is never seen on the streets of Clacton. These are the vessels pushing Alt right ideology and Trump has opened the lid in the Corporate/Technocrat attempt to take over can of worms. You now see clearly that these individuals are there for that promotion and are bereft of policy that might deliver positive change. Trump, Fagash et al are there to serve 'higher**' interests riding on an emotive populist theme designed to stir up the rhetoric based on creating the atmosphere that everything is in a state of imminent collapse.
The problem for Fagash is that as the numbers of immigrants coming to the UK is falling, there are less brown people to use and promote the claim of imminent societal/cultural collapse.
We are now seeing on both sides of the pond, where the populist rhetoric is becoming more and more distant from the reality where people are realising to their detriment, that the populist movement doesn't serve the ordinary individual.

*Mobsters Inc.?
** Not morally higher

 

[Pross]

As I didn't see either interview, I can't confirm if these are both true, but *if* 30p Lee is being equivocal about Farage, maybe the penny is dropping.

View attachment 17056

Anderson mentions that the two men involved have resigned and will be investigated by the Party, carefully ignoring that there was a third man caught on camera. It's going to be interesting to see how they explain away the two non-entities being thrown under the bus and not the Party leader who was clearly fully aware of the proposed plan.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Sometimes the "Let's all work together!" is just a ploy to sound not-batshit-crazy partisan, and there is a place for opposing, even when you actually broadly support a piece of legislation (to test its soundness... which is what the adversarial system is there for), but the politics-by-memes, where it's all about trying to score social media points by winning 'meme wars' is not conducive to good legislation.

There is a place for both collaboration and opposition, that is healthy. Pity Starmer didn’t understand that even within his own party. Badenoch is just as bad.
Long term projects don’t stand a chance unless all parties have a stake, and that is where this country is failing. Net Zero was one of these projects which has now been sabotaged by trumpian climate change denial.

 

[briantrumpet]

Net Zero was one of these projects which has now been sabotaged by trumpian climate change denial.

Yeah, it's not long since the Tories were all in on Net Zero, but they've since decided that incinerating the planet is worth fighting culture wars over.

 

[briantrumpet]

Haha, this is obviously the Faragian version of "I hardly knew them". It's all so transparent.

 

[Pross]

Yeah, it's not long since the Tories were all in on Net Zero, but they've since decided that incinerating the planet is worth fighting culture wars over.

To give Boris his dues, it was a subject he was doing well with. I find it bizarre that the various Parties seem to have decided it is something contentious and to openly oppose. It affects the futures of voters they'll all be relying on with a decade or two once the 'we've always had summer's like this, it's just weather' crowd have died.

 

[briantrumpet]

To give Boris his dues, it was a subject he was doing well with. I find it bizarre that the various Parties seem to have decided it is something contentious and to openly oppose. It affects the futures of voters they'll all be relying on with a decade or two once the 'we've always had summer's like this, it's just weather' crowd have died.

I think Johnson would have turned on a sixpence if Carrie hadn't been involved. He probably already had a Daily Mail article ready to go to explain why.

 

[Psamathe]

To give Boris his dues, it was a subject he was doing well with. I find it bizarre that the various Parties seem to have decided it is something contentious and to openly oppose. It affects the futures of voters they'll all be relying on with a decade or two once the 'we've always had summer's like this, it's just weather' crowd have died.

Particularly as Net Zero and addressing Climate Change is popular with the electorate (according to polls). Whilst the UK is not suffering as badly as some countries, UK population are feeling the impacts eg heat waves, flooding, storms, crop yields dropping (and food prices increasing), insurance damage claims increasing thus insurance premium increases, etc., etc.

But I suppose those consuming champagne and oyster lunches and Mayfair clubs are isolated from such real world impacts.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Particularly as Net Zero and addressing Climate Change is popular with the electorate (according to polls). Whilst the UK is not suffering as badly as some countries, UK population are feeling the impacts eg heat waves, flooding, storms, crop yields dropping (and food prices increasing), insurance damage claims increasing thus insurance premium increases, etc., etc.

But I suppose those consuming champagne and oyster lunches and Mayfair clubs are isolated from such real world impacts.

And yet they are the same people who want (white) people to breed like rabbits. Their own children are going to have a very miserable existence if they carry on drilling and burning. Greta needs to come back and point the finger and say ‘How dare you’.

 

[briantrumpet]

That's really not how it works, you wazzock.

 

[laurentian]

" . . . nothing illegal has happened . . ."

As a defence, that's always pretty weak

 

[Pross]

That's really not how it works, you wazzock.

View attachment 17063

They don't seem to understand that an internal investigation is not the same as a criminal investigation. It would be a good get out though, 3 years down the line at the next election 'sorry, still under investigation so we can't discuss it'.