Rwanda - quite a nice place, perhaps?
- Thread starter matticus
- Start date
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AuroraSaab
Legendary Member
I once met someone who was married to a Rwandan woman and he spoke highly of the country, especially the stunning landscapes. Most African countries aren't as backward as we in the West often think.
Re offshore processing of asylum claims, I think many people would be just as concerned if it was being outsourced to say, Turkey, as to an African nation. It's more the principle than the location.
Re offshore processing of asylum claims, I think many people would be just as concerned if it was being outsourced to say, Turkey, as to an African nation. It's more the principle than the location.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
I was hoping to go there on a cycling holiday but does this mean that I can't take my carbon bike?
OP
OP
matticus
Guru
Just don't take it in your normal black bin bag.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
Good thinking. I'll take it in my other black bin bag.
ebikeerwidnes
Well-Known Member
What do you put your medicines and other liquids in on the plane?
Hitchington
Wokey Dick
- Location
- New York-Paris-Pokemon
Just over a year ago the UK agreed with the UNCHR assessment of Rwanda: -
“Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: unlawful or arbitrary killings by the government; forced disappearance by the government; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by the government; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions; arbitrary detention; political prisoners or detainees; politically motivated reprisals against individuals located outside the country, including killings, kidnappings, and violence; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; serious restrictions on free expression and media, including threats of violence against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecutions of journalists, and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the rights of peaceful assembly and freedom of association, including overly restrictive laws on the organisation, funding, or operation of nongovernmental and civil society organisations; serious and unreasonable restrictions on political participation; and serious government restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organisations.”
HRW (Human Rights Watch) go on to state: -
“The ruling Rwandan Patriotic Front continues to target those perceived as a threat to the government. Several high-profile critics have been arrested or threatened and authorities regularly fail to conduct credible investigations into cases of enforced disappearances and suspicious deaths of government opponents. Arbitrary detention, ill-treatment, and torture in official and unofficial detention facilities is commonplace, and fair trial standards are routinely flouted in many sensitive political cases, in which security-related charges are often used to prosecute prominent government critics. Arbitrary detention and mistreatment of street children, sex workers and petty vendors occurs widely.”
Rainbow Migration also state: -
"The British government’s new agreement means that LGBTQI+ people who have fled life-threatening situations in their home countries, and sought safety and protection from the UK, will instead be sent to a country where it is not safe for LGBTQI+ people to be open about the sexual orientation or gender identity. The situation for LGBTQI+ people in Rwanda is so poor that it is a source country for people seeking asylum in the UK based on their sexual orientation.”
“Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: unlawful or arbitrary killings by the government; forced disappearance by the government; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by the government; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions; arbitrary detention; political prisoners or detainees; politically motivated reprisals against individuals located outside the country, including killings, kidnappings, and violence; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; serious restrictions on free expression and media, including threats of violence against journalists, unjustified arrests or prosecutions of journalists, and censorship; serious restrictions on internet freedom; substantial interference with the rights of peaceful assembly and freedom of association, including overly restrictive laws on the organisation, funding, or operation of nongovernmental and civil society organisations; serious and unreasonable restrictions on political participation; and serious government restrictions on or harassment of domestic and international human rights organisations.”
HRW (Human Rights Watch) go on to state: -
“The ruling Rwandan Patriotic Front continues to target those perceived as a threat to the government. Several high-profile critics have been arrested or threatened and authorities regularly fail to conduct credible investigations into cases of enforced disappearances and suspicious deaths of government opponents. Arbitrary detention, ill-treatment, and torture in official and unofficial detention facilities is commonplace, and fair trial standards are routinely flouted in many sensitive political cases, in which security-related charges are often used to prosecute prominent government critics. Arbitrary detention and mistreatment of street children, sex workers and petty vendors occurs widely.”
Rainbow Migration also state: -
"The British government’s new agreement means that LGBTQI+ people who have fled life-threatening situations in their home countries, and sought safety and protection from the UK, will instead be sent to a country where it is not safe for LGBTQI+ people to be open about the sexual orientation or gender identity. The situation for LGBTQI+ people in Rwanda is so poor that it is a source country for people seeking asylum in the UK based on their sexual orientation.”
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
I don't agree with shipping "illegal" immigrants to Rwanda (or anywhere else) for processing. IMHO, We should set up suitable processing systems, here, in the UK, it is the right thing to do, and, it may well be cheaper than chartering aeroplanes which are then not used, because of legal challenges.
I seem to recall it being mentioned that Denmark was embarking, or, had embarked, on a similar scheme. I thought Denmark was a founder member of the European Court of Human Rights?
I seem to recall it being mentioned that Denmark was embarking, or, had embarked, on a similar scheme. I thought Denmark was a founder member of the European Court of Human Rights?
Hitchington
Wokey Dick
- Location
- New York-Paris-Pokemon
The people being sent to Rwanda are asylum seekers, or refugees. These are people who have their case processed. Morally there is no such thing as an "illegal immigrant." A human being can't be illegal for wanting to escape persecution, or for wanting to make a better life for themselves. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/blogs/yes-minister-it-human-rights-issue/stop-saying-illegal-immigrants
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
If you say so. But, choosing a different word or words to describe the people who are potentially to be sent to Rwanda, doesn’t change anything IMHO.
newfhouse
pleb
Do you not think describing these unfortunate people as illegal rather than vulnerable is part of the process of persuading the unthinking public that they deserve their rendition?
BoldonLad
Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
- Location
- South Tyneside
I understand your point.
But... if a person wishes to enter UK for "a better life" there are ways to do this, ie, arrive at an official Port of Entry, Airport etc, and show your documents, ten of thousands do this everyday. There are of course, situations where people are fleeing danger (for example, but, not limited to, Ukraine, Afghanistan). In those situations it is perfectly understandable that people may not have relevant documents to hand. I cannot think of a single Country in the world, where you can enter freely and legally, without relevant documents.
I am not saying we (UK) should not accept either of these groups of people, I am simply saying, we should have a working system to deal with their wish to come here.
It is quite a while ago now, and, I doubt I can find the relevant post, but, I have previously posted my view on the "rubber dinghy" situation, ie, why not just put a ferry on (free), and cut out the criminals, and, the danger.
FishFright
Well-Known Member
We did have a working system , then they changed the rules and slashed the funding.
Badger_Boom
New Member
You missed "and blamed it on the EU".
ebikeerwidnes
Well-Known Member
Seemed like an appropriate thread to resurrect
anyway - seems like Rwanda is not especially safe - or not safe enough to use for Transportation of people to
However - there is - apparently - a solution to all this
There will be a bill that MAKES Rwanda a safe place
so there you are
today Rwanda
tomorrow Gaza
Next Tuesday - Eastern Ukraine
You see - The British are all powerful and will solve the problems of the whole World
or are they just kicking the can down the road so that we reach the next election and it is all still tied up in various places and they can say it isn;t their fault
anyway - seems like Rwanda is not especially safe - or not safe enough to use for Transportation of people to
However - there is - apparently - a solution to all this
There will be a bill that MAKES Rwanda a safe place
so there you are
today Rwanda
tomorrow Gaza
Next Tuesday - Eastern Ukraine
You see - The British are all powerful and will solve the problems of the whole World
or are they just kicking the can down the road so that we reach the next election and it is all still tied up in various places and they can say it isn;t their fault
