Starmer's vision quest

[Ian H]

Also it does seem that some proponents of the idea seem to think that most people have large chunks of cash just sitting around ready to pay a tax bill, when in reality most is tied up in house and pensions, and a lot of more liquid investments would incur a tax bill to turn into cash.

Wealth tax been shown to pretty ineffective as a revenue raiser: this article explains it quite well:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/15/daniel-priestley-entrepreneur-labour-wealth-tax/

That article merely gives one side of the argument. The example given, of Revolut, is hardly inspiring, given their dodgy reputation with employment and reputation for freezing customers' account without explanation.

 

[Stevo 666]

That article merely gives one side of the argument. The example given, of Revolut, is hardly inspiring, given their dodgy reputation with employment and reputation for freezing customers' account without explanation.

Can you explain why you think a wealth tax is a good idea and an effective revenue raiser?

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1947779379213598946?t=fu7RNEP7LYO6hrdnlxn_vQ&s=19


Police directly instigated confrontation

 

[CXRAndy]

 

[Ian H]

Can you explain why you think a wealth tax is a good idea and an effective revenue raiser?

I don't claim to be a tax expert, so I tend to consult those who are. Here's an assessment from suitably qualified people. Apologies for the PDF.
www.lse.ac.uk/International-Inequalities/Assets/Documents/OLDWealthTaxCommission-Final-reportold.pdf

 

[First Aspect]

View attachment 9194

shoot Andy, what are you going to do now if you agree with that?

 

[icowden]

I don't claim to be a tax expert, so I tend to consult those who are. Here's an assessment from suitably qualified people. Apologies for the PDF.
www.lse.ac.uk/International-Inequalities/Assets/Documents/OLDWealthTaxCommission-Final-reportold.pdf

The problem with that is that it doesn't at any point suggest how it would work in practice. It talks a big game about valuations etc but makes no mention of how that can be done with offshore wealth, shell companies and foreign ownership.

The IFS and others agree that a wealth tax is the wrong approach, and most companies that have introduced them have abandoned them as they tend to penalise investment and saving and it's almost impossible to find out the wealth of the super wealthy as it's all hidden. A tax on income generation / income streams is far more effective.
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/wealth-...itute-properly-taxing-sources-and-uses-wealth
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/05/10/wealth-taxes-wont-work/

First of all, you've got to find out what the wealthy own, and that is not as straightforward as you think. They hide their wealth in companies, which may have disguised ownership. They put their wealth in trusts and will claim this is no longer their asset. And is it, or isn't it? Can you imagine the number of years in court that it'll take to resolve that one?

Once you've discovered what they supposedly own, you've then got another problem to solve. And that is valuing it. Now, people think that valuing wealth is really straightforward. I promise you, it isn't.

How much is a private company worth? Because its shares aren't traded, you've got to work out, therefore, what somebody might pay for it, even though it isn't available for sale.

How much is a racehorse worth? Well, some might only be worth a couple of thousand pounds. Others might be worth tens of millions of pounds.

And a work of art? I can daub a bit of paint on a canvas if you like. How much is it worth? Fifteen quid on a bad day. Twenty quid on a good day. That's about it. But, how much is a Picasso worth? Again, the variation in value is enormous. But it's a lot more than my daubs. Which figure is correct? No one will really know.

The point I'm making is this. By the time you have actually even established what is owned and what it's worth, first of all, you've got to start the process again for the next year because the proposal is that this is an annual tax.

 

[Ian H]

The problem with that is that it doesn't at any point suggest how it would work in practice. It talks a big game about valuations etc but makes no mention of how that can be done with offshore wealth, shell companies and foreign ownership.

The IFS and others agree that a wealth tax is the wrong approach, and most companies that have introduced them have abandoned them as they tend to penalise investment and saving and it's almost impossible to find out the wealth of the super wealthy as it's all hidden. A tax on income generation / income streams is far more effective.
https://ifs.org.uk/articles/wealth-...itute-properly-taxing-sources-and-uses-wealth
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2024/05/10/wealth-taxes-wont-work/

As they say, a one-off tax would be easier to implement, as in the examples they mention.

Decent wages and a properly progressive tax system should be the long term goals.

 

[Stevo 666]

I don't claim to be a tax expert, so I tend to consult those who are. Here's an assessment from suitably qualified people. Apologies for the PDF.
www.lse.ac.uk/International-Inequalities/Assets/Documents/OLDWealthTaxCommission-Final-reportold.pdf

You've come to the right person then...

As mentioned, by icowden, nice bit of theory but the reality is somewhat different. If you look back at the article i originally linked, it shows how little revenue this sort of thing raises (and that is before the impact on other taxes from wealthier people leaving to avoid it); and how few countries have a wealth tax - if it was a great idea, most countries would be charging it.

As for a properly progressive tax system, what is not progressive about it currently?

 

[Stevo 666]

In related news, even Labour admit that taxes are too high...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...easury-reeves-ftse-100-markets/#1753193068319

 

[Ian H]

You've come to the right person then...

You're a Laffer minute!

 

[Stevo 666]

You're a Laffer minute!

You can count on that...

 

[icowden]

As for a properly progressive tax system, what is not progressive about it currently?

The problem that most people have with the existing tax system is that once you get to a certain level of wealth it seems to be incredibly easy to dodge taxes by moving your wealth off shore, into Trusts, shell companies etc. Once you get into superwealth, taxes aren't being paid fairly.

For example between 2000 and 2010 Lord Ashcroft received payments of £150m from his offshore trust in Bermuda and paid absolutely no tax. He repeatedly states that he is going to give up his non-dom status but remains a resident of Belize. He was required to pay full tax between 2010 and 2015 whilst he sat in the House of Lords. He did however but £33m of shares the day before the new law requiring him to pay tax came into effect, took no income for 5 years and then immediately sold shares worth £11m - again paying no tax.

There is nothing illegal about what he is doing / what he did but it does boil the piss of quite a few people.

 

[icowden]

In related news, even Labour admit that taxes are too high...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...easury-reeves-ftse-100-markets/#1753193068319

There is no point posting links that people can't read. If you want to pay to subscribe to a discredited comic, that's your call. But posting the links here is pointless.

 

[CXRAndy]

shoot Andy, what are you going to do now if you agree with that?

What's wrong with deport policy, they're illegal immigrants after all?

Or do you live off Uber eats food and must have these people available for yourself?